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Thread: Changing timing belt help!!

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    Changing timing belt help!!

    Okay i am changing my timing belt and i am going to admit that this is my first time doing so and i have just been pushing along and learning as i go so if i sound kind of new to this it is because i am. Now first of all i am trying to set everything to tdc so that i can pull out the belt before i put in the next one and i am having problems. first of all i can't locate the bellhousing window so that i can see the marks that help me set the engine. Second my timing belt has lost a couple of teeth so it isn't gripping the shaft and i cant turn the pulley because the part where the teeth have grinded off are right at the bottom where i have to crank it all and since it won't grip it won't turn and with that i can't even set the engine so i can't do anything at all until i fix that problem first. So Please can anyone on here help me. Oh and can you please be specific when telling me where the window for the bellhousing is.

    Car: 1989 plymouth Sundance, automatic, 2.5 4cylinder engine.

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    Remove the old belt. On the crank will be a dot. the dot will be at about 2 o'clock. You can check to make sure the engine is at top dead center by removing the cyl 1 plug ( one closest to the belt) and using an object what will not break off feel the piston move and verify TDC. The Intermediate shaft has a line when the engine is at TDC this line will line up with the dot on the crank. Note the intermediate shaft is not extremely critical to be correct. Try your best but If it is off a tooth you can make it up by turning the distributor when you reset the ignition timing. The cam gear has 2 arrows, these match up with the gap between the bearing caps and the head. The hole in the gear points up. What I nornially do is I turn the timing belt 1 tooth forward install the belt and turn the cam back 1 tooth. This helps to remove slack on the intermediate side of the belt. Then set the belt tension by holding the tensioner with a wrench and tightening the bolt. Don't set the belt too tight because it will make noise. Without the actual weight tool you should be able to make a 90 degree bend with the belt between the cam and intermediate shaft. When you are done rotate the engine 2 revolutions and verify everything is stil in time. It is easy to be off 1 tooth and the engines run one tooth off. They lack in power though. I found putting the belt on with the cam off 1 tooth and moving it back lessens the chance of being off a tooth because you dont have too much slack on the one side.

    Justin

  3. #3
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    I forgot to add. Make sure to check the igniton timing when finished. The Window is on the top of the belhousing. It sometimes has a foam block pushed in it. You need to pull the coolant temp wire to stop the advance.

  4. #4
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    What i need to know is if i take off the timing belt how am i suppose to rotate the engines since i can't take it off now since the teeth on the belt are missing and it is right at the point where the teeth need to catch to turn it all. Thank you for the previous post though it is informational

  5. #5
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    wrap the old belt around the gear, and turn it with a pipe wrench. Thats what ive done, works like a charm. youre not keeping the old belt anyway.
    Nick G. 1984 Dodge Rampage

  6. #6
    turbo addict
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    I pull out all of the plugs so that you are not fighting against compression when you rotate the assembly. This is a good tip to keep from sheering off the bolt in the crank (remember when pulling plug wires to remember the location 1-3-4-2 from left to right on the cylinders and clockwise rotation on the distributor cap). I also remove the distributor cap to be sure to have the rotor button pointing at #1 cylinder.

    Anyway...going from memory

    Being as your belt is stripped I would rotate the cam and crank independently of one another.

    Remove the accessory belt drive pulley on the crank. I usually find it not necessary to loosen any of the accessory belt tension as you will be able to reassemble without doing so most times.

    Once you locate that window on the tranny bell housing you can get a friend to look for the groove in the flywheel while you rotate the crank via the crank gear bolt with a ratchet...line it up with the first marker (from let to right) on the outside of the window on the bell housing...they will be cast markers on the bell housing surface right outside the window...this will be 0 deg.

    Once you have the crank lined up I would then get the intermediate shaft lined up. The intermediate shaft gear will have a very slight groove on the outer circumference of the gear (hard to see)...you will want it lined up with the recessed dot on the crank pulley using the horizon of the center bolt of both gears (use a straight edge and run it from the center of the crank bolt to the center of the intermediate shaft bolt if need be for reference) This is the least important or the three (cam, crank, accessory) gears as stated before...if you get it a tooth off you can simply adjust the distributor later on to compensate.

    To align the cam it is best to have a mirror handy. As stated before look for the arrows to either side of the cam gear...with a mirror you should be able to see them align with the horizon (line) on the heads surface through the large holes in the cam gear. To be sure you are not 180 deg. out on the cam you also want to align the groove on the out circumference of the cam pulley (just like the one on the intermediate shaft) with the imaginary 12 o'clock position of the axis of the motor (remember that the engine lays backward a bit and isn't actually on a true 12 o'clock vertical axis) if you can envision a line running from the crankshaft pulley bolt to the camshaft pulley bolt than you want to be on this axis.

    Put your new timing belt on (assuming that you have the motor mount loose and all accessory brackets out of the way) and set the tensioner so that the timing belt on the side facing the front of the car has no more than 90 deg. worth of twist (slack) at the mid way point between the cam gear and the accessory gear. It's great to have the special tool available for this as it keeps you from over tightening the timing belt and wiping out your intermediate shaft bearings.

    Once buttoned up rotate the assembly by hand and line the crank back up to 0 deg. on the bell housing to double check that:

    1. The intermediate shaft gear has the groove on the out circumference of the gear lined up with the dot on the crank gear.
    2. The camshaft is on the vertical axis of the engine (remember not a true 12 o'clock vertical axis)
    3. The distributor rotor button is pointing to the #1 cylinder.

    Before bolting everything back together I always put the plugs back in and start the car (remember to make sure everything is free and clear of the belts!) and let it run very briefly as the water pump will not be turning. Quickly verify gear alignment with timing light. You should see that the light will flash spot on with your grooves/dot at their proper positions (hard to explain but a great follow up check)...also listen carefully to see if you hear the timing belt groaning as this is a sign that you tensioned the belt too tight. Cut the car back off as soon as possible as it can very easily overheat!

    Bolt EVERYTHING back together and loosen the distributor so that you are able to turn it but don't turn it just yet, just give at a wiggle to be sure it's loose. Start up the car and let it warm up to operating temperature. Pull the coolant temp sensor plug on the side of the thermostat water box on the cylinder head. The check engine light should now be on. Aim the timing light at the window in the tranny bell housing and adjust so that the groove in the flywheel lines up with the cast mark on the bell housing for 12 deg. (they go in 2deg. increments from left to right...so the 7th mark will be 12 deg.). I then shut the car off and tighten the distributor bolt (so not to get caught up in the fan). Start the car back up and aim the timing light again to be sure the distributor didn't move while tightening. Turn off the car and plug the coolant temp sensor back in. Start the car one more time verifying that the check engine light is off and all should be good.

    This whole procedure is much more simple if you align everything before disassembly...and once you get good at it much of it can be skipped to a quick procedure.

    Now go stomp sum wimport/mustang/anything that gets in your way's butt!

  7. #7
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    Ok guys i have the rotor on the distributor pointing towards the first plug and i have the intermediate shaft and the cam lined up and when i put the top of the belt cover on and pull out the plug to check and see if that little hole on the sprocket is there i see it but on the flywheel i ain't seeing anything lined up with the o^ mark should i keep turning until i get the o^ mark on the flywheel or should i let it be because everything else seems to be perfect except the 0^on the flywheel.

  8. #8
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    And I don't know if it is me or the car or the bolts but i can't seem to get the bolt on the motor mount that goes through from one side to the other to come off it is like no matter how much force i use it won't come off. Any advice i am turning to the left. I know something simple but sometimes the simple things hold you back.

  9. #9
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    can somebody please help me with my problems that i mentioned in my last two posts it is starting to get colder outside and i would like to finish this as soon as possible. Thank you i would really appreciate it cause i am like lost right now as to what to do.

  10. #10

    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    only motor mount bolts you need to remove are the two bolts that hold the actual rubber mount to the car.

    http://www.thedodgegarage.com/timing_belt.html
    James Dempsey Jr 91 Dodge Shadow ES convertible 95 Dodge Neon Sport sedan 2.4 5spd

  11. #11
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Changing timing belt help!!

    Motor mount--I recall you need to support the motor with a small bottle jack, then remove the two bolts holding the PS mount to the firewall. THEN, there is a third bolt on the BOTTOM of the mount. With these out you should be able to raise the motor up 1/2" or so to slip the belt through.

    As far as the flywheel, you may have to just have to spin the motor until the #1 piston comes up on the compression stroke and look for the mark. If you can't find it, it's possible someone did a clutch/tranny job and bolted the flywheel back on in the wrong position.

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