transmission slipping maybe? TD driving lessons

[daytona90]

I have an A413 with 670 internals it is rebuilt with low miles. When i shift from 2nd to 3rd the car revs for a second before it hits 3rd (like it hits neutral for a second). It does it when i manual shift and in drive. What would cause this? Also the engine cuts out at WOT in any gear. I have never owned a turbo car before and i am wondering if you need to give the car gradual acceleration to prevent over boost or something. It is kind of embarrassing when i am trying to run next to an import and the car cuts out like that and then it revs high because it did not shift into 3rd correctly . All help welcome.

[Vigo]

First thing's first. You need to get a boost gauge ASAP! You could have a boost control issue that's letting the car get up to 14.x psi, where there is a cutoff protection. IF that's whats happening, the cutout is saving your motor.

The shifting thing is what's called 2-3 flare. I'll probly most more about that after i eat breakfast lol.

[daytona90]

First thing's first. You need to get a boost gauge ASAP! You could have a boost control issue that's letting the car get up to 14.x psi, where there is a cutoff protection. IF that's whats happening, the cutout is saving your motor.

The shifting thing is what's called 2-3 flare. I'll probly most more about that after i eat breakfast lol.

Please post more when you get a chance about 2-3 flare.

I do have a boost gauge i only run 5-7lbs boost. I have the wastegate vacuum hooked up to manifold vacuum until i have the engine broke in. What is stock boost for a T1 setup?

[turbovanman²]

It sounds like the dreaded 2-3 flare and its main cause is sloppy clearances in the front drum. I bet the rebuilder just used the regular specs. You need to remove the snap ring, use thinner steels and add one more friction, tighten up the clearance to .050" or less. You can also compress the spring in the drum but doing the clearance, and the valve body mods will fix most of it. I doubt its slipping as you say its new but it could be he nicked a seal putting it together.

As for hitting redline, as vigo said, you could be hitting boost cutout or the builder raised up your trans line pressure and your hitting the rpm cutout.

Whats your setup and boost?

[daytona90]

I can run the car to red line i just cant do it WOT. If i lay into the pedal at a slower steady rate it will go to red line but if i give it to much throttle to fast it cuts out.

It sounds like fixing the 2-3 flare is not something i can do ( no trans experience). I have been hit hard by the falling economy so i cant pay to have it fixed either. Will it damage the trans if i continue to drive it this way?

[turbovanman²]

I can run the car to red line i just cant do it WOT. If i lay into the pedal at a slower steady rate it will go to red line but if i give it to much throttle to fast it cuts out.

It sounds like fixing the 2-3 flare is not something i can do ( no trans experience). I have been hit hard by the falling economy so i cant pay to have it fixed either. Will it damage the trans if i continue to drive it this way?

Then your hitting boost cutout, turn the boost down.

As for the trans, it will just get worse and worse, eventually, it will start to slip, try to avoid full boost 2-3 shifts.

[daytona90]

what psi is boost cut out and how would i lower boost. I have it set to manifold vacuum and 7psi is the most i have seen on my gauge?

[turbovanman²]

what psi is boost cut out and how would i lower boost. I have it set to manifold vacuum and 7psi is the most i have seen on my gauge?

Boost cutout is 14.7 psi, something is wrong if your hitting it. Does it feel like you hit a brick wall when it cuts out, its very violent?

Whats your setup?

[daytona90]

Yes it is an instant stop of all power. as soon as i let off the accelerator it comes wright back. This is the 90 tbi daytona converted to turbo using 91 harness,91 sundance sbec. So other then the conversion it is a stock T1 setup. the only new symptom i have had lately is the CTS is bad i think (code 22 and fan does not work) but it is cold enough now that the car never gets above the half way mark on the temp gauge. I would not think it has anything to do with the cut out. These cars stock can run 14.7 psi boost that is sweet. I cant wait to get all the bugs fixed and see how it runs. Can the charge air sensor cause this it just lays on top of my fuel rail don't know what to do with it?

[turbovanman²]

You could have a bad TPS or a wiring issue. The charge air sensor, just drill and tap the intake, 3/8 pipe thread. Use a vacuum while your drilling and tapping it, the little bit that falls inside wont' do any harm.

[daytona90]

I do have a high idle it seem to stay around 1000 rpm at warm idle. I have adjusted it a couple of times and i just goes back to 1000rpm. Can cam timing cause this problem I think i might be slightly advanced but not sure.

[turbovanman²]

I do have a high idle it seem to stay around 1000 rpm at warm idle. I have adjusted it a couple of times and i just goes back to 1000rpm. Can cam timing cause this problem I think i might be slightly advanced but not sure.

That can cause it, but most likely, you have a wiring/sensor issue.

Any codes?

[daytona90]

Ok i did some digging around and i realized i do not have my knock sensor connected (which is bad because i cant here knock do to no cat or muffler). The connector on the 91 harness has a thin wire coming out of it and it does not look like it can connect to my sensor are there different types of sensors and could this be causing some issues?

[turbovanman²]

Map, baro, tps.

[daytona90]

TPS checks out ok, Map is good, I have had code 61 since I have got the car running (actually all solenoids are giving a code) but i can not figure out why. I have replaced the solenoid with a chrysler one it seems to be a universal solenoid. I have cheked continuity between the plug and sbec and it is good. I drove the car with the baro solenoid unplugged and there was no change in performance. Should there be a noticeable difference with baro unplugged if it is working? How do i diagnose the solenoids further? I did check the solenoids like it says on mini mopar and solenoids are working correctly. If a baro solenoid can cause my engine cut out it would make sense thats
my problem since i have code 61.

[turbovanman²]

TPS checks out ok, Map is good, I have had code 61 since I have got the car running (actually all solenoids are giving a code) but i can not figure out why. I have replaced the solenoid with a chrysler one it seems to be a universal solenoid. I have cheked continuity between the plug and sbec and it is good. I drove the car with the baro solenoid unplugged and there was no change in performance. Should there be a noticeable difference with baro unplugged if it is working? How do i diagnose the solenoids further? I did check the solenoids like it says on mini mopar and solenoids are working correctly. If a baro solenoid can cause my engine cut out it would make sense thats
my problem since i have code 61.

Baro is for the computer to know what altitude its at and compensate, its a key on, engine off routine I think.

Its simple to test, keep it hooked up and run manifold vacuum straight to the MAP, leaving the baro by itself.

[t3rse]

if the cam timing were off no amount of throttle feathering will get it to rev past a point, and usually the power just falls flat...diving into the gas and getting cut is usually tps or bad calibration with too much fuel (or big injectors, too big, on stock fuel pressure and stock calibration)

look at the plugs...black, white, or a shade of tan? salty or fouled? smell like gas? oil smell like gas?

[daytona90]

I connected the map to manifold vac and it runs the same. Spark plugs look good a nice light tan color. Everything is a stock setup on this car. Would the cam timing being advanced or retarded cause the cut out at WOT? I can red line the car feathering just cant do it WOT.

[daytona90]

I decided to play with cam timing a little bit and i discovered that this car can be moved a tooth either direction with little to no change in performance. I retarded it a tooth and i had less vac and idled lower. advanced it and it idled smoother with a couple more inch vac. There was no real performance difference and the car still cut out at wot. I am going to retest the TPS tomorrow and make sure its good.

[Tony Hanna]

Ok i did some digging around and i realized i do not have my knock sensor connected (which is bad because i cant here knock do to no cat or muffler). The connector on the 91 harness has a thin wire coming out of it and it does not look like it can connect to my sensor are there different types of sensors and could this be causing some issues?

I can't believe nobody caught this. The thin wire hanging out of the knock sensor connector on the wiring harness is actually part of a broken knock sensor. The knock sensor should have a terminal sticking out of the plastic part of the sensor that looks like the threaded part of a screw. What happens is that the plastic part of the sensor gets brittle with age and will break when unplugging the sensor. The broken off part stays up inside the connector and the wire that's supposed to connect the terminal to the element inside the sensor is left hanging out of the connector.

The fix is to dig the broken piece of sensor out of the wiring harness connector and replace the sensor with a new one.


Your cutout issues are likely a result of being in limp-in mode from the code 22. I might be wrong, but I'm betting if you get your coolant temperature sensor problem sorted out, it will take care of the cutout too.