Need opinions on Ebay Water to air IC.

[Tony Hanna]

I'm going to be running a water to air IC in the Spirit. What I'd really like to do is find an IC that will fit mounted vertically in the area where the stock airbox would normally go and keep the plumbing to as much of a straight shot as possible from the turbo to the IC and the IC to the TB.
I'm looking at something like this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Air-T...QQcmdZViewItem
I'd like to get some opinions before I buy it though.

Thanks,

Tony

Edit: Shooting for an approximately 300whp daily driver and if anybody has concerns about that cooler not being up to the task, I'd like to hear them as well.

[Tony Hanna]

I find it hard to believe that nobody on here has an opinion or some knowledge to share. Anybody!!??

[Darkwolf]

I have an opinion. Hurry the hell up! I want to do the same thing to the van and once you do it mine should be easy .

[CSXRT4]

I believe its a frozenboost.com intercooler

I also bought one but havnt been able to test it out yet. Quality seems alright, I filled it with water and it didnt leak but I havnt been able to pressure test it yet

[Tony Hanna]

I have an opinion. Hurry the hell up! I want to do the same thing to the van and once you do it mine should be easy .

That's cool. I can do all the testing and get those pesky hurt pistons out of the way before you try it.

I believe its a frozenboost.com intercooler

I also bought one but havnt been able to test it out yet. Quality seems alright, I filled it with water and it didnt leak but I havnt been able to pressure test it yet

Going by the size, does it look like it will fit vertically beside the head? I'd like to mount one like that (maybe even weld some tabs on it and bolt it to the stock airbox bracket somehow) and hopefully still have enough room to run the plumbing for a CAI around it. It's a real pain trying to visualize this without having the car here to look at and take measurements.

Thanks,
Tony

[zin]

OK, I'll bite!

IMO, a liq to air cooler is only good for an application that you cannot fit a big enough air to air cooler,that's mostly because of the added equipment needed to use it and the additional possibility of a failure due to the added stuff (pump stops, coolant leaks out, leaks into the engine, plumbing, heat exchanger...).

BUT, they can work bitchn and short of a nitrous/CO2 cooler, the only way you'll be getting lower than outside air temps (if you add a reservoir that you can put ice in...).

My other concern is what does is flow and at what depression? Will it be a restriction in your system @ the pressure you want to run? If not, roll the dice and takes your chances, you'll likely have more in the peripheral stuff than the cooler itself! If it were just a drag only kind of thing, I'd get it, hook up a fairly large Nitrous Solenoid and flow nitrous/CO2 through it, that would SERIOUSLY cool the air!! But, at the same time that might just freak your tune... Anyway, there my .02!

Mike

[CSXRT4]

Going by the size, does it look like it will fit vertically beside the head? I'd like to mount one like that (maybe even weld some tabs on it and bolt it to the stock airbox bracket somehow) and hopefully still have enough room to run the plumbing for a CAI around it. It's a real pain trying to visualize this without having the car here to look at and take measurements.

Thanks,
Tony

I have this one http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...35915f1081a205

With the SRT-4 engine in my CSX-T it just barely fits beside the head on top of the transmission. The brake booster is just slightly in the way, and I have mine tilted slightly to lower its vertical profile. Ill see if I can take a quick pic of it tomorrow when im working on it

[Tony Hanna]

OK, I'll bite!

IMO, a liq to air cooler is only good for an application that you cannot fit a big enough air to air cooler,that's mostly because of the added equipment needed to use it and the additional possibility of a failure due to the added stuff (pump stops, coolant leaks out, leaks into the engine, plumbing, heat exchanger...).

BUT, they can work bitchn and short of a nitrous/CO2 cooler, the only way you'll be getting lower than outside air temps (if you add a reservoir that you can put ice in...).

My other concern is what does is flow and at what depression? Will it be a restriction in your system @ the pressure you want to run? If not, roll the dice and takes your chances, you'll likely have more in the peripheral stuff than the cooler itself! If it were just a drag only kind of thing, I'd get it, hook up a fairly large Nitrous Solenoid and flow nitrous/CO2 through it, that would SERIOUSLY cool the air!! But, at the same time that might just freak your tune... Anyway, there my .02!

Mike

Thanks Mike!
My main reason for wanting to go air to water is to keep the AC without having to go through the ordeal of routing the pipes for a front mount. I went through that with the Sundance and routing the plumbing with the condenser still in place was a whole big bag of not much fun and the results were considerably less than pleasing to the eye. It looks like there are plenty of places to pass a couple 1/2" water lines through though.

Anyhow, the plan is to mount the IC as previously mentioned, plumb it to a reservoir, a pump, and a second AC condenser mounted in front of the existing condenser. Hopefully a condenser will serve as a passable heat exchanger. Our stockers are a 4 tube design with loads of surface area.

The way I figure it, I'm not in boost for very long at a time so as long the system has enough capacity to absorb the heat, it should have plenty of time to shed it when the engine is running at part/no throttle. Does this sound reasonable?

As to cost: Since I'm going with a junkyard condenser as a heat exchanger, that won't be too bad. I'll probably source the reservoir from a junkyard as well or fab something out of aluminum. I'm undecided about the pump though. I've seen some people using 500 gph Rule bait well pumps. This is appealing because of the low cost and easy availability of a replacement. On the other hand, I can get a stock pump for the Ford water/air systems for around $90 off Ebay. That just leaves hose, clamps, and misc. electrical stuff to get the pump up and running. Might add a slimline pusher fan too...
So yeah, it'll be costly but not too bad. Hopefully it'll be easy enough to install and clean looking to make it worth the extra cost.

I just need to figure out if the IC I'm looking at will perform reasonably well and fit the way I'd like it to.

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

I have this one http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...35915f1081a205

With the SRT-4 engine in my CSX-T it just barely fits beside the head on top of the transmission. The brake booster is just slightly in the way, and I have mine tilted slightly to lower its vertical profile. Ill see if I can take a quick pic of it tomorrow when im working on it

Thanks!

[WLKivett]

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11412

Here is a write up of a air to water install.

[thefitisgay]

i want to go water to air just for the sleepr aspect.... people see a big front mount and they scare away but i wanted to put mine in the same spot... the one guy on here did one in his i think it was a red shadow and he said that the IC gets so cold it has condensation on it but he was runnin a pretty nice sized rad for it

imo its worth a try but the extra parts seems expensive (coolant rad and all that)

[minigts]

So really if you were a good welder, you could just cover an air to air, seal it up and put some threaded holes on either end to create a water to air intercooler. That would be neat for someone to do who had time and a welder to do so.

[JuXsA]

I had one and sold it a few months ago to a forum member. i forgot who I sold it to. I just didn't want to have that on my DD because all it does is give me more parts to break. Your setting it up the same way I was though. They are pretty cool and they look like they will work well. Best bet is to buy the water pump from a ford lightning and use that. For a heat exchanger, I was going for either an a/c condenser or a large transmission cooler. Make sure on your res the hole in it is large enough to put a chunk of dry ice in it.

[Tony Hanna]

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11412

Here is a write up of a air to water install.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

i want to go water to air just for the sleepr aspect.... people see a big front mount and they scare away but i wanted to put mine in the same spot... the one guy on here did one in his i think it was a red shadow and he said that the IC gets so cold it has condensation on it but he was runnin a pretty nice sized rad for it

imo its worth a try but the extra parts seems expensive (coolant rad and all that)

I haven't street raced anybody in a long time, and don't really go looking for races anymore, so stealth isn't so much an issue for me. I just want the install to look clean, like it belongs there. If I can get it looking like that and it works well, I won't mind spending the extra money.

So really if you were a good welder, you could just cover an air to air, seal it up and put some threaded holes on either end to create a water to air intercooler. That would be neat for someone to do who had time and a welder to do so.

If you believe the marketing hype, A/A and W/A cores are made differently. How much different and what kind of real-world effect the difference has is anybody's guess... If I had a tig machine, I'd certainly give it a shot though.

[Tony Hanna]

I had one and sold it a few months ago to a forum member. i forgot who I sold it to. I just didn't want to have that on my DD because all it does is give me more parts to break. Your setting it up the same way I was though. They are pretty cool and they look like they will work well. Best bet is to buy the water pump from a ford lightning and use that. For a heat exchanger, I was going for either an a/c condenser or a large transmission cooler. Make sure on your res the hole in it is large enough to put a chunk of dry ice in it.

I remember seeing where you were selling yours. I hadn't completely made my mind up at that point or I probably would have tried to buy it.

[minigts]

Yeah I was looking at a couple of the pictures posted on those sites, and what is different? It looks exactly like the one I have, only the outer part is covered and has water going through it. If both are sealed where the air travels, what is REALLY different in the design other than sealing up the outside of the cooler on the fins to hold water? Man, if I had the time and money I would do it.

[Mopar318]

Thanks, I'll check it out.



I haven't street raced anybody in a long time, and don't really go looking for races anymore, so stealth isn't so much an issue for me. I just want the install to look clean, like it belongs there. If I can get it looking like that and it works well, I won't mind spending the extra money.



If you believe the marketing hype, A/A and W/A cores are made differently. How much different and what kind of real-world effect the difference has is anybody's guess... If I had a tig machine, I'd certainly give it a shot though.

I have a tig machine, but after you see the cost of aluminum, wire, gas, and electricity you wont want to try it.

Im doing a A-W in the daytona some time soon here, and will sell my evo front mount setup. I aquired a few titanium coolers from aircraft at work. I will run the water through the cooler, then through the coolers, which will be set in ice boxes.

[Tony Hanna]

I have a tig machine, but after you see the cost of aluminum, wire, gas, and electricity you wont want to try it.

Im doing a A-W in the daytona some time soon here, and will sell my evo front mount setup. I aquired a few titanium coolers from aircraft at work. I will run the water through the cooler, then through the coolers, which will be set in ice boxes.

If I don't get too greedy, I can get small to medium size pieces of aluminum plate of varying thickness for free, some tubing too. All scrap and leftovers of course, but I'm not picky. I've got access to everything I need to mig aluminum (argon, wire, etc), but I figured tig would be the way to go on something like that.

I really like the ice box idea for a drag car. Mine's going to be seeing mostly street duty though so I'll be happy if I can get FMIC-like performance out of it. Still, if there's room...

[johnl]

Get it. Good price.

For your radiator, check out motorcycle radiators, especially the ones that come on dirt bikes - the kind with one on each side of the bike; they are narrow and vertical. There is a variety of sizes so you might find one that will work AND they come with a cap!


AS welding up a home built from an A/A:
Look at a heater core's fins, now look at a radiator's fins, now look at an A/A IC's fins.

The design of heat exchangers IS a science and they DO have stuff figured out, such as the optimum fin count for the hot side and alternately the optimum fin count for the cooling side AND the optimum rate of your hot air over the hot side fins at that count and similarly the optimum rate of coolant flow over that same fin count on the cooling side.

Now, double that stuff, why? because you are working with two heat exchangers! The A/W IC and then the radiator.

[ShadowFromHell]

I bought one a few years ago when that model first came out. I paid 250 or so for it.... I tried everything to get it to fit in my shadow and it took me a while to get it all figured out. They are harder to mount then expected.

But my question is, if you do mount it in the on top of the tranny, wouldn't it only be filling it half full of water? With to hole in the top side, it isnt going to bleed the air of of it... That was my concern anyways.