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Thread: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

  1. #1
    turbo addict
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    Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Guys I cant get my freakin van to boost right, a guy from here came by to help me through the van (89 turbo voyager with mitsu turbo). We got boost finally but involved having the WG hose disconnected and vac capped off there. That of course was full boost. So we hooked it up to just manifold pressure as we figured would at least get me some boost, NO.

    Here is my main questions here i have the mitsu turbo with 2 turbo compressor housing ports and of course a 3rd which is the WG port. I would assume (from my prior dealings with mitsu turbos in other cars however didnt have any ports on the housing only 1 to 3 on the WG itself) I should cap them off but however its stock so it should be getting boost with them connected, im assuming we dont have things connected correctly and the diagrams i have seen are not helping as we have hooked them up just like the simplified one and the under hood label one.

    So now this leaves me with this, im dumping the crap and going grainger, now my question is with the grainger i dont need either of the 2 ports on the turbo right? BTW one port goes to the air box the other goes to manifold pressure. The grainger of course would go inline the WG hose to the manifold pressure. Should i be running any of the stock vacuum inline check valves? if so where, as I have seen them needed for when using blower motor so when ur in boost u still get ur heat and not have it die down. Not that i have incured that the ways we have been setting.

  2. #2
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    you only need the 3 way check valve that goes to your brake booster...that keeps vacume going to the booster and cruise control. You don't want your brakes to see boost...lol...and you could put you g-valve between one of the nipples on the turbo housing since that sees boost also, but it is better to run it to a manifold source so its reads the pressure drop through your intercooler or whatever is between the turbo and the TB


    here this might help


    oh and you don't use the WG solenoid when using the g-valve, which i think you already know
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  3. #3
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    yea lol i do know that much of it, thanks for all the info man, however that diagram i know which of each thing is my prob is when all is hooked up im getting no boost, i even eliminated the canister and purge etc. I dont get wtf is going on but its annoying lol. not to mention i only have 2 solenoids, one is purge and the other WG.

  4. #4
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Do you have a cat on the car?

  5. #5
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    So when you had the WG can open with no vac/press to it, how much actual boost did it make?

    Did you try driving it and did it hit over boost?

    Is the turbo actually functional and capable of making full boost?

    Are you beating yourself up trying to get boost out of a DOA turbo? You won't get a lot of boost out of worn out snail.

    Like Cordes asked, is the exhaust maybe plugged and limiting the turbo's performance?

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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by IROCNOROLL View Post
    Are you beating yourself up trying to get boost out of a DOA turbo? You won't get a lot of boost out of worn out snail.

    Like Cordes asked, is the exhaust maybe plugged and limiting the turbo's performance?
    Just unplug the wastegate reference pressure, If you don't spike up to overboost (if you take it that high) then you can forget about those solonoids, you have bigger mechanical issues.

  7. #7
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by rosie View Post
    Just unplug the wastegate reference pressure, If you don't spike up to overboost (if you take it that high) then you can forget about those solonoids, you have bigger mechanical issues.
    What I said.

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    Invisible Turbo Mopar Contributor mcsvt's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    The van wasn't registered at the time so we just rolled into it on the street, hit 10psi with the line off the wastegate (this was after trying to get the solenoids to work).

    So I figured after seeing boost with the WG line off, just connect it to manifold pressure and he would get 5-7psi of boost for now, but we didn't try it before I left.

    It's hard to diagnose without trial and error at this point and he lives about an 1hr and 40 from me.

    I think the main thing now is it ok to cap the ports coming off the turbo? One joins in with the WG line, the other runs to the air box. I've never played with the mits turbos before.
    -Gary Mazzone-
    1986 GLHS #168

  9. #9
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by mcsvt View Post
    The van wasn't registered at the time so we just rolled into it on the street, hit 10psi with the line off the wastegate (this was after trying to get the solenoids to work).

    So I figured after seeing boost with the WG line off, just connect it to manifold pressure and he would get 5-7psi of boost for now, but we didn't try it before I left.

    It's hard to diagnose without trial and error at this point and he lives about an 1hr and 40 from me.

    I think the main thing now is it ok to cap the ports coming off the turbo? One joins in with the WG line, the other runs to the air box. I've never played with the mits turbos before.
    The one going to the air box is for the BOV. If you only got 10PSI with the vac line off there must be some sort of restriction in the system. That is why I wondered if it had a cat on it. If you hook it up per the vac diagram and drop the DP it will work properly if it was the cat.

  10. #10
    Invisible Turbo Mopar Contributor mcsvt's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Sorry 10psi and he got out of it, didn't let it go past as it climbed quick. Didn't let it hit overboost.

    But it would be a good idea to check the cat. Get to it Joe
    -Gary Mazzone-
    1986 GLHS #168

  11. #11
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Ok now I get it. You finaly got it to boost doing what irocnoroll said but when you hooked it all back up you had no boost.

    Picking at your first post... If you hook the reference boost to the WG you will have no boost. If you hook up your WG solonoid backwards, you will have no boost. If you have boost with no controller then you Don't have bigger issue.

    Don't run the plastic BOV. You will have no (4-7) boost. I don't know of anyone that has that hooked up and it makes more then that. I'm sure there's someone out there but by nature they just bleed off anyboost you make.

    I don't know what the boost is set in a cal for an 89 but I'm pretty sure it isn't 14. Use a grainger, set it to 12, be happy Intercool it and go more and be more happy.

  12. #12
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Unless the stock BOV is damaged, it should hold fine. I ran one at 14PSI for a long time before I ditched it while swapping in a garrett turbo. Being damaged is a very real possibility after all these years though.

  13. #13
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Unless the stock BOV is damaged, it should hold fine. I ran one at 14PSI for a long time before I ditched it while swapping in a garrett turbo. Being damaged is a very real possibility after all these years though.
    Ditto to that. Our old T/Mini ran just fine @ 12+ psi on the Mitsu on our own MBC with the Stock plastic BOV. Unless the specific unit you ran into was damaged,there is no reason to call it as a serious limiting factor. The stock turbo minis essentially run the same boost maps as any other turbo1 for a given year.

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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by mcsvt View Post
    So I figured after seeing boost with the WG line off, just connect it to manifold pressure and he would get 5-7psi of boost for now, but we didn't try it before I left.
    Where did you source this vac / pressure signal from the manifold? Mani or the throttle body? Not being a dick, but did you manage to source off a ported vacuum source, instead of mani?

    I think the main thing now is it ok to cap the ports coming off the turbo? One joins in with the WG line, the other runs to the air box. I've never played with the mits turbos before.
    On the T1 mini's the line that goes to the "t" for the WG can hose is the source to the WG solenoid also. That line comes off the nipple on the outlet side of the compressor, thru an in-line orifice, and to the "T". One side of the "T" goes to the WG. The other crosses over the intake mani below the injector wiring harness, and off the engine to the pass side inner fender and up to the WG solenoid.

    This solenoid is normally open, or venting the small amount of pressure from the turbo to atmosphere, allowing for no pressure presented to the WG can. This design operation is why you want to source the WG control from the positive pressure turbo nipple and not a vac port off the intake mani. A mani source also becomes a vacuum leak at idle, as the solenoid is normally open. Now, if you have everything plumbed correctly, but the WG solenoid line is plugged, or melted closed, There will be pressure to the WG can pretty much all the time the engine is running. Or if the solenoid itself is plugged, or stuck closed.

    The computer reads the MAP to determine boost pressure available in the intake mani, and then uses a variable duty cycle to the WG solenoid to control how much pressure is built to the WG can. This allows the computer to control boost with a much higher degree of finesse than a MBC which is essentially either on or off like a switch. The other line you refer to which runs down to the air filter box is the BOV manifold signal line. I seem to remember that also "t's" off for the cruise control diaphragm in that same vicinity. There is usually a one way check valve in that line close to the air box too, if memory serves.

  15. #15
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    lol i guys i said above in my post that we tried with the ref hose for the wg off. Anyway still doing good with the WG ref hose off as i did it again last night as its the only way i get boost, im thinking maybe the WG solenoid is no good. I do have a cat and when i had the exhaust apart it looked good inside at least, no broken internals and wasnt crudded with carbon or anything either, Van was very well maintained by previous owner as well. But either way its still possible the cat is a little messy but i dont think its going to be the issue with the boost since with the WG hose off it will boost so it aint the cat at that matter. Either way the cats comming off soon anyway and im putting a more custom exhaust with a new muffler. I am also getting a manual boost controller and putting that in and of course ditching the wg solenoid.

  16. #16
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    If you are getting absolutely no boost when you have the WG hooked up properly then the arm on the can is getting stuck open. Make sure that you have it hooked up properly, as the mistu cars work counter to the way that the garretts work.

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    Invisible Turbo Mopar Contributor mcsvt's Avatar
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Joe so then did you get boost with the line off last night?

    IROCNOROLL:
    We had the WG solenoid hooked up as you described, no boost. Felt like it was being bleed off.
    -Gary Mazzone-
    1986 GLHS #168

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    Garrett booster
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    Quote Originally Posted by mcsvt View Post
    Joe so then did you get boost with the line off last night?

    IROCNOROLL:
    We had the WG solenoid hooked up as you described, no boost. Felt like it was being bleed off.
    Cool... so now if you leave the line to the WG solenoid "off" and just leave that side of the "T" beside the WG can open to atmosphere, you eliminate the WG Solenoid and the related plumbing to it from the picture.

    If still no boost, then there is a likely a mechanical issue bleeding it off. See below. If boost is back, then there is a blockage to this normally open control pressure circuit, the line or the WG solenoid itself. Or there is an electrical issue causing the WG solenoid to stay energized (closed) all the time. Quick check is to pop the hose connector off the WG solenoid, and rev up the engine a couple of times. You should be able to "feel" air flow from the hose. If that works, try blowing thru the solenoid itself. There has to be a blockage somewhere.

    If the WG control circuit / solenoid seems to work out as good to go, it may be, as Rosie I think, suggested above a physically damaged BOV, or the plumbing to the BOV control may be incorrect, holding the BOV open, though I am not too sure how that would be accomplished? The problem with this theory is "if" that was the case then there should be limited or no boost even when you run the WG can uncontrolled.

    A pair of hose squeeze off pliers or maybe needle nose vise grips with some rubber hose on each jaw to soften the edges can be used to block the smaller BOV hose that "T"s off the bottom of the main boost hose to the throttle plate. It runs over to the air filter box, and is about 1 1/4" maybe in diameter. If your boost is back with that smaller hose blocked off, you need a BOV or corrected control vacuum plumbing to it.

    If still no boost with the WG control circuit and the BOV taken out of the loop, then, as was suggested above, make sure that the WG arm is mechanically good to go and the swing valve itself can be moved smoothly without sticking. It takes very little leakage past the swingvalve to limit or kill boost.

    There isn't much else that can remove or limit boost, except for a damaged turbo itself or a plugged exhaust at this point. We have seen turbos on their way out initially spool and make a little boost, then kind of lay down due to internal contact between the blades and the housing when the shaft play lets things move side to side or end to end. Rare, but plausable. Pull the air inlet hose off the centre of the compressor side and check the shaft for play. Though, again, running the WG can uncontrolled should also be affected by either of these problems too, but maybe not in the limited test drive time you have tried so far?

  19. #19
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    figured out what was up, the wg hose was in with manifold source instead of direct to WG and not to man source. So basically what i mean is my port on the wg has to be in line with the wg solenoid hose and not in the source of manifold.

  20. #20
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    Re: Ok boost issue driving me NUTS!!!....

    on my 89 the g valve is hooked up inbeetween the turbo and WG for boost control

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