'89 Spirit ES project: body/paint

[Tony Hanna]

I figured I'd start a little project log for the body/paint work on the '89 Spirit ES I just picked up. Here is the car as it sits now:


Aside from the missing paint and all the surface rust, the body is really pretty straight and solid. I plan to pull it apart and get started on the rust removal next weekend. Ideally I'd like to have it under primer by Sunday night so that I can spray it the following weekend.

Anybody have any good suggestions for dealing with the surface rust? Right now I'm thinking of using an angle grinder/wire wheel to remove the worst of it, then going over it with an emery cloth flap wheel, and finishing up with a coat of rust converter/sealer before spraying the primer. Sound reasonable?

Also, any tips for removing the chrome trim on the doors without wrecking it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony

[Turbodave]

I would see how well some 80grit on DA would do first, the wire wheel may leave some pretty heavy scratches behind.

[RoadWarrior222]

Also, any tips for removing the chrome trim on the doors without wrecking it would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe hit it with a heat gun so it bends rather than snaps.

[bfarroo]

Removing the trim is a time consuming task. You have to pull the glass to be able to get to the screws that hold it on. The rear door rear window comes out as one piece but has the track for the other glass that goes down to the bottom and it's held in by some double sided tape. If it's the first time you've done it you feel like your going to break something. It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min. The hardest part is removing the glass. How I did it was to roll the window down about 1/2 way, then grab the top front of the glass and reef it down. this will pop the window out of the track. I wore gloves during this process just in case because this is how hard I was pulling on the window. Then you have to remove it from the regulator by running it up/down to get it in a good position to move it out of the way. I also removed the track felt/rubber from the door then you can get the upper trim portion to slide off and unscrew the bottom. The side mirrors need to come off as well.It's easy once you do it just figuring it out for the first time is a PITA!

[Tony Hanna]

I would see how well some 80grit on DA would do first, the wire wheel may leave some pretty heavy scratches behind.

Good point! I'll try the DA first. I've been looking around the 'net at different methods for dealing with surface rust and after removing the worst of it by mechanical means, a phosphoric acid based treatment like Naval Jelly looks to be the favored method for getting the rust left in the pits. I need to run by the hardware store and pick some up to experiment on some rusty scrap this week. If it works as well as claimed, I'll try it out on the Spirit this weekend.

[Tony Hanna]

Maybe hit it with a heat gun so it bends rather than snaps.

Removing the trim is a time consuming task. You have to pull the glass to be able to get to the screws that hold it on. The rear door rear window comes out as one piece but has the track for the other glass that goes down to the bottom and it's held in by some double sided tape. If it's the first time you've done it you feel like your going to break something. It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min. The hardest part is removing the glass. How I did it was to roll the window down about 1/2 way, then grab the top front of the glass and reef it down. this will pop the window out of the track. I wore gloves during this process just in case because this is how hard I was pulling on the window. Then you have to remove it from the regulator by running it up/down to get it in a good position to move it out of the way. I also removed the track felt/rubber from the door then you can get the upper trim portion to slide off and unscrew the bottom. The side mirrors need to come off as well.It's easy once you do it just figuring it out for the first time is a PITA!

Thanks guys! I was hoping that there was some way to do it without having to completely remove the glass, but if that's what I have to do, then I'll do it. I guess it's better to do the extra work than to just tape it up and leave a place for rust to start and wreck the new paint job.

[RoadWarrior222]

It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min.

LOL I hate that don't you, mess up parts on your own car, realise how they SHOULD have come off when you're about done, then you take less than a quarter of the time at the wreckers to get replacements.

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

Da?, Cost Alittle Money, But Maybe You Can Find, A Good Shop
That Does Soda,or Plastic,nut Blasting,
Or A Good Job, Sand Blast Everthing, Ok! Just Joking

[RoadWarrior222]

Check the VIN see if there's a secret warranty on the paint LOL

I ain't seeing how wire brushes will put worse scratches in than 80 grit, coz the 80 grit will go right through if you lean on it hard enough whereas the wire wheel just ends up polishing it after a while.

[Tony Hanna]

Da?, Cost Alittle Money, But Maybe You Can Find, A Good Shop
That Does Soda,or Plastic,nut Blasting,
Or A Good Job, Sand Blast Everthing, Ok! Just Joking

John has a sand blaster. It just doesn't have the capacity to do large surfaces though. I may end up making use of it in a limited capacity for small areas that are hard to get to with sand paper.

Check the VIN see if there's a secret warranty on the paint LOL

I ain't seeing how wire brushes will put worse scratches in than 80 grit, coz the 80 grit will go right through if you lean on it hard enough whereas the wire wheel just ends up polishing it after a while.

I think it depends on the wheel. Some of the heavy gauge knotted wire wheels will actually dig into the metal if you stay in one place too long. The wheels with the smaller gauge wire will usually just polish the metal like you're talking about. Either way, the primer I'm using is a high build sandable primer, so keeping out small scratches isn't really mission critical. Getting the rust delt with so the new paint doesn't bubble is the important part. If I end up having to shoot several coats of primer and sand between each to fill some scratches, I'm not going to complain.

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Another quick question. Are the strips that run between the tops of the doors and the back glass (the thing that still has paint on it in the second pic) removable? If so, how? They look like they hide a seam or something and might provide a really good place for hidden rust to start creeping back out.

Thanks,
Tony

[Speedeuphoria]

I dont think those are removable, they are kind of a PITA. I did not remove mine(if its possible) when painting.


As far as the wire wheel, I would try the DA or a flapwheel way before wasting my time with the wire wheel. The flap wheels that I have grind metal so will deff remove the rust. I just like using a larger surface area and flat to not create a wavy surface

[Tony Hanna]

I dont think those are removable, they are kind of a PITA. I did not remove mine(if its possible) when painting.


As far as the wire wheel, I would try the DA or a flapwheel way before wasting my time with the wire wheel. The flap wheels that I have grind metal so will deff remove the rust. I just like using a larger surface area and flat to not create a wavy surface

I wonder how they're attached? If they're in there with seem sealer or something so that it's likely there's no rust hiding underneath them, then I won't worry about it.

I'll probably just use the DA to be safe. Maybe hit anything stubborn with a flap wheel. I ran across a pretty good write up on how to deal with surface rust here: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/secr...led-55679.html I'd like to follow those steps pretty close. If I can get similar results, I won't be too worried about the rust coming back.

I also need to decide what to do about the windshield and back glass. The rust extends right to (and probably under) the rubber trim around both of them. The windshield isn't a big deal because it's cracked and needs replaced, but the back glass is fine. I hate to cut it out and run the risk of breaking it or having it leak when I glue it back in...

Thanks,
Tony

[1966 dart wagon]

for the surface rust i would try some either dupont or ppg rust remover, not quite sure of the name but its a chemical you wipe on surface rust like you have and it comes right off then you neutralize it with water when your done, then whip off and prime.

Using a DA or just sandpaper for that matter will not get the rust out of the lil pits, you wont be able to see it, but rust is still there. Just a though, oh and for bare metal make sure to use epoxy primer or etch, they are both designed to stick well to bare metal, i would use epoxy if i was you. They showed us it at school and i was amazed I though meh use a grinder, the wipe method is much easier and doesnt leave scratches. And i wouldnt probably soda/media/sand blast it, roofs are week and thin, it would probably warp it, unlesss MAYBE you used a 'spot' blaster and wanted to do it all day.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...rID=410&KICKER
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...rID=411&KICKER

[ShadowFromHell]

I use to be a autobody tech, quit doing it beacue the pay is so low... But here is what I would do.

use a DA sander with 80-120 grit to remove all the bad paint and rust. You should be able to get 90-99% of the rust this way. Then get a product Rust-Mort. Use a rag to apply it (per directions) but do not rinse it with water. Let it dry, at least a full 24hrs. Then re-sand all the area's that you applied Rust-Mort too with the 80-120 grit on a DA.

after that, you should be good to prime. Good luck, it will be time consuming, but not to hard!

[bfarroo]

If you pull the headliner there is a nut that holds it in from the inside as the piece has a stud on it.

Another quick question. Are the strips that run between the tops of the doors and the back glass (the thing that still has paint on it in the second pic) removable? If so, how? They look like they hide a seam or something and might provide a really good place for hidden rust to start creeping back out.

Thanks,
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

for the surface rust i would try some either dupont or ppg rust remover, not quite sure of the name but its a chemical you wipe on surface rust like you have and it comes right off then you neutralize it with water when your done, then whip off and prime.

Using a DA or just sandpaper for that matter will not get the rust out of the lil pits, you wont be able to see it, but rust is still there. Just a though, oh and for bare metal make sure to use epoxy primer or etch, they are both designed to stick well to bare metal, i would use epoxy if i was you. They showed us it at school and i was amazed I though meh use a grinder, the wipe method is much easier and doesnt leave scratches. And i wouldnt probably soda/media/sand blast it, roofs are week and thin, it would probably warp it, unlesss MAYBE you used a 'spot' blaster and wanted to do it all day.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...rID=410&KICKER
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...rID=411&KICKER

Interesting! I've got some phosphoric acid based stuff that I'm going to try after I DA the worst of it off. It sounds like it works about the same way. I do need to get some of the metal prep stuff though.

I use to be a autobody tech, quit doing it beacue the pay is so low... But here is what I would do.

use a DA sander with 80-120 grit to remove all the bad paint and rust. You should be able to get 90-99% of the rust this way. Then get a product Rust-Mort. Use a rag to apply it (per directions) but do not rinse it with water. Let it dry, at least a full 24hrs. Then re-sand all the area's that you applied Rust-Mort too with the 80-120 grit on a DA.

after that, you should be good to prime. Good luck, it will be time consuming, but not to hard!

I think the stuff I've got is similar. I looked up the MSDS on Rust-Mort and it lists the primary ingredient as phosphoric acid. I think the main reason the guy in the thread I linked to was using water was to keep it from setting up so that it wouldn't dry out before the acid had completely finished converting the rust (as opposed to just converting and sealing the top layer). Allthough if I manage to get all the rust off the surface, the black coating from the rust remover should keep anything left in the pits from spreading right?

If you pull the headliner there is a nut that holds it in from the inside as the piece has a stud on it.

Cool! The headliner is sagging a little and needs reglued anyway, so I'll just pull it out now and take care of both at the same time.



Thanks,
Tony

edit: Any tips on what to do about the windshield and back glass? Right now my options are to tape them up and paint around them, lift the rubber trim and brush some POR15 or something similar underneath it then tape and paint around, or cut them out and paint everything.

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW if you've got some phosphoric acid, and think it's a good idea to put some in a squirt bottle.... don't.









'coz the mist blows back at you and you cough your guts up...

[Tony Hanna]

BTW if you've got some phosphoric acid, and think it's a good idea to put some in a squirt bottle.... don't.

'coz the mist blows back at you and you cough your guts up...

I found that out the hard way last night. I was experimenting on some rusty stuff to see how well it worked. When I put it on the car, I'm definitely either going to use a respirator with acid gas cartridges and a squirt bottle or more likely just put the stuff on with a chemical resistant brush.

Thanks,

Tony

[RoadWarrior222]

Those cheap foam brushes are okay with it, unless there's solvents in the mix.