You should be able to run more than 22 PSI on pump with the G head with no knock. I was running 25 PSI with my 2.5/G head combo and trapping 108 MPH in my shadow. Sounds like we were at about the same power levels.
The stage 5 ECU is meant for race gas when over 18 PSI. Why not just stick a couple gallons of good stuff in and turn the boost to 25?
I'd maybe try straight water in the sprayer and a gallon of straight methanol added to the tank. Don't try that the other way though.
^LOL, yeah not the other way.
Why meth in the tank? Shouldn't need that. Throw a couple gallons of C12 or C16 in the tank and he should be fine. I know Cecil has sunoco Super GT 99 octane unleaded, or torco 108 unleaded so perhaps those are options for you too. The 99 octane should be enough if he's only getting mild detonation.
id set out to make the car reliable under all conditions though. either have FWD turn down the timing in higher boost levels for a pump gas version of the cal or learn to do your cals yourself.
Brian
Originally Posted by turbovanman
Not a bad idea. I'm not sure on this, but maybe a thought, I believe the stage 4 cal is the same as a stage 5 but with less aggressive timing. The stage 5 was meant more for racing, the stage 4 was meant for street car with occasional racing. Again not sure on that stuff, but I think so.
Thanks guys I appreciate any and all input.
First off about the octane and methanol usage. I only have Husky 94 available, it is what I use unless I'm in a pinch... then its Esso 91. I want to run my 12 on a street setup, I am stubborn enough to not want to put race gas in my tank. I know it smells awesome but I want to keep the car all street when I'm at the track... hence why I chose an alky injection kit in the first place. (Devils Own for you curious cats). My stubbornness is also the reason I won't take my car on a trailer to the track, its a driver baby! The only non-street item I run at the track is my slicks, I don't want to push it past that.
I have an update anyway! I did my #4 coolant mod... several ways of doing it but I went with the line from the waterpump to the side of the head, that went smoothly... no noticeable differences driving it but that's to be expected, hopefully it does its job (in theory it does).
After that I went and topped up with 94, topped up my meth and grabbed my scanner. Set it for KnockA and KnockV... at 18 PSI it remains NO knock at all, never had it go yes. This is through full 3rd and 4th gear pulls. The interesting part was, my KnockV remains 0.00 virtually all the time, even under full load to high RPM... occasionally it will flicker 0.02 at an idle and that's it. Is it not supposed to rise with RPM? Do I have a bum knock sensor or an issue related to the knock sensor anyway? If it wasn't working and I was hearing a bit of detonation then maybe it was only slight detonation as it wouldn't pull timing. I have seen my scanner say YES to knock before, this was probably 3 weeks ago when I first was playing with my meth and had my base timing too high. So I never thought that my knock sensor wasn't working as it has worked before.
After that I am hesitant to up the boost just yet, I decided to watch my ADV on my scanner and see what it says. At WOT full boost through 3rd and 4th it settles at 18^ advance... my base is approximately 11^. (it flutters slightly when checking it, but 11^ is where it hovered). So that gives me 29^ total advance under WOT conditions. Is this acceptable for a 2.5/G-head combo? Should I be dropping my base timing slightly to compensate if its too high?
I am currently only playing with my FWD Stage 5 cal until I can find a good baseline 2.5/G-head calibration to play with... I have socketted 2 SMECs before, have a Moates burner and chips, and recently bought a Moates Ostrich for on the fly tuning capabilities... I don't think I have time to learn all the ins and outs of tuning before the final race-day event. I do fully intend on making the car reliable under all conditions, but this next Sunday is the final race day and I want to run a 12 so bad, if I have to walk a fine line then I will do it.
Thanks again guys!
can you advance the base timing a bunch and try high load in 3rdish gear just above idle RPMS (before you build boost). That should be able to create some audible knock that aint gonna blow things up..see if your knock sensor picks that knock up.
nice car man!!!!
cant wait ta get mine painted pacifica white again
sounds like the knock sensor isnt working. it should put out voltage as the revs rise. try another sensor.
Brian
Sweet, thats how I did my #4 cooling mod too.
Today is your lucky day though, I specialize in G head cal's. I got one for you right here.
I have the CEL flash on knock enabled, and a staging limiter setup for 5000 RPM for you and rev limit at 6500.
This is based on 3 bar, +40's, 2.5L 5 speed, and a 180 thermostat.
If you don't have D-cal then PM me for it. But you can also just try burning this cal and popping it in. This should be very close to what you need. The timing should be close, fueling is always up in the air depending on each setup though. If anything it's rich though.
Last edited by moparzrule; 09-24-2008 at 06:55 AM.
matt do you get any knock retard with that cal? just curious.
Brian
For me it was good until 20 PSI, then it would start pulling timing. I've run 25 PSI on pump 93 with that cal though, on stock cast mahle's.
gotcha
I didn't get too much done today, but I decided to install my Moates Ostrich and test your calibration Matt. It started up running rough but smoothed out and seemed ok. I had turned the boost down a bit just for testing purpose, so I'm at ~15psi. Seemed to run well, I can't say for positive but it may be performing slightly better than my FWD Stage 5... I don't have back to back testing at this boost level but it feels pretty good. I did not test or replace my knock sensor tonight yet. It runs very rich under boost, well in the 10s AFR. It seems like its slightly richer at idle, possibly. I didn't drive it tons today though.
A few questions though, the pumping efficiency table is the major table for modifying my fuel correct? So adjusting it leaner through the correct RPM range would be all that is required for adjusting fuel under full throttle? I know there is a fuelfullthrottle table as well.
I currently have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but now with the tune-ability of my fuel do you recommend a stock regulator? I already have my pressure turned down from stock levels a bit.
I will play more tomorrow, spent too much time today getting the Ostrich setup and working. Then I spent too much time hanging out and going for a ride in an RB20DET powered 70s Mazda 1/4 ton truck... it is simply rediculous!
Try this one. I made it rich at first cuz I wanted to be safe.
How many inches of vacuum do you pull at idle? And what fuel pressure are you running?
The pumping efficiency table is there to keep the fueling even all the way through the RPM band. But you also have to take into consideration how much boost you are making and how quickly you have the full throttle fuel table ramped up.
First off I love wireless internet and my Ostrich. I'm currently outside sitting in my car with my Ostrich plugged into my laptop =)
I just fired up your old cal again Matt, it runs and chugs like crap on startup but doesn't need any throttle input... it smoothed out after about 5-10 seconds and is pulling ~17 in hg when cold.
Just loaded up your cal you just posted... still fired slightly rough even though it'd been running for a couple mins on the previous cal. It started out pig rich on startup (10afr and I could smell gas). Its now floating around stoich at idle. Still ~17in hg. Warmed up and revved a bit its settling around ~18 in hg.
Going for a drive and run some errands, when I get back into wireless range I will report back!
Yeah I dunno, must be the base cal's I have. I try backing off the cold fueling something fierce yet it still chugs on cold startup it's so rich. But then it's fine once warmed up.
Well, the new cal ran slightly less rich... maybe mid 10s. I realize I still have my meth on, I'm guessing that will impact the AFRs. I am also considering installing my factory fuel pressure regulator.
Anyways I decided to start toying slightly, I pulled down my pumping efficiency table a bit and AFRs started coming into the 11s. I think I touched my MAP table under ~18" vacuum and pulled down the fuel so that will lean out under decel.... under higher rpm decel it still runs 13s AFR... I like my injectors to be shut off under decel, how do I make that work? Also it started slightly detonating mid-range after making those changes, mainly it started after modding the MAP table in the vacuum side of things, which doesn't make sense to me. I loaded back the factory cal and it stopped detonating again. Thats what happens when you try things without asking questions.
What fuel tables should I be modifying and how much at a time to get my boost AFRs into the high 11s/12s... I'll leave it safely rich.
If I want to back my timing curves down just slightly, if I do run into some slight detonation what tables should I modify?
I'm sure I have a rich cold start issue, have an idea on what I can modify? I see there are several coldstartenrich tables, or something.
I'm taking a break for dinner right now, after I'm done I'm going to try and find a knock sensor, a stock regulator and possibly unhook the meth as I'm still running ~14psi for the time being. I also need to find a lighter plug splitter so I can run my scanner and laptop at the same time (either that or run new power wires and mount a second lighter plug).
Thanks guys... hopefully all Saturday afternoon can be spent tuning, so hopefully I have some ideas on what to be doing at that time. I appreciate any help so much!
Oh, my bad I didn't know about the meth. No wonder you were so rich!
I wouldn't mess with the pumping efficiency. Like I said that table is to keep your fueling even in all RPM's.
You want the full throttle fuel and part throttle fuel.
How many inches of vacuum do you pull in decel?
Try this cal, WITH your meth. Now you should have 0 fuel on decel, and I took even more cold fueling out.
Also wanted to ask, do you have a progressive meth kit or the whole thing comes on at once? If so, what boost level do things happen? I can adjust the cal to work in correlation with your meth kit.
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