need TU cermaic clutch feedback

[Reaper1]

OK...I'm doing a bit of product research to see what people who are running the actual product have experienced with it. I've already talked extensively with Chris on the phone about the options for my car, so now I'm trying to get feedback to make my final call.

I'm looking for people who are running a TU ceramic disc(prefferably a 6-puck, but 4-puck will also give me an idea) with a +40%(yellow IIRC) pressure plate.

I'm wanting a description of how the car handles stop-and-go traffic(how bad does it chatter; how smoothly can the car normally take off (do you have to rev it up a lot to get it going ect.); what pedal feel is like(how far from the floor it engages, how easily the clutch is modulated, how firm the pedal is, ect.); how it acts at the track, whether it's drag, road course, autocross(does it launch easily with street tires, can it handle slicks, can you modulate the clutch for a good launch, does it engage smoothly on downshifts, how well does it cope with heat from a lot of shifting and/or possible slippage, ect.)

With all of that I also want ot know what flywheel is being used, how much power and torque(approximatly if you need to) the engine is making(or putting to the ground), and how heavy the car is.

I know that is a lot, but I want to make sure that my decision is based on the most information I can get. I'm trying to push my personal opinions and thoughts aside in order to get a more broad view of what I should expect, and not based on my personal experience so far.

Thanks for your people's time....

[Ondonti]

The yellow is the + 60% plate not the 40%.

If you are asking about that plate, then you have to make sure the people know if their input shaft endplay is good. I just checked mine and it was .014" so I ordered a new shim today to get into factory specs. If their input shaft is loose, then it should chatter more and possibly creep forward when doing things like launching at the track. The yellow plate doesnt have much movement I guess. Its really easy to fix the input shaft endplay though.

I also found out today that even though our cars require two different lengths of clutch cables, mopar onlys sells 1 size now.

So that means that your are responsible for when the clutch engages if your auto adjuster cant take up the slack (shimming the cable at the top of the trans if it disengages too far from the floor). I assume you still have the old short cable (i have one in my duster).

[Reaper1]

I'm actualy not even considering the yellow plate, he's got another option that I'm going to pursue(apon his reccomendation).

My shaft endplay *should* be well within spec as the tranny was rebuilt by Cliff Ramsdell not even a year ago.

My cable was replaced just before I bought the car and I've already gotten rid of the rubber bushing on the tranny side, so I'm all good there.

So, with that being said...is there ANYBODY out there willing to describe their clutch completely honestly? I mean come on...I KNOW people use these products and they are driven quite often, so this shouldn't be that big a deal!

[Aries_Turbo]

i have the 6 puck with a blue plate.

only chatters if i try to slip it alot. if i just let it out briskly but smoothly, it is nice and drivable. if i slip it alot, it chatters like a bastard. i have filled mounts and a steve anders (sp?) bobble strut. i also have PB bushings in the 89-90 k frame control arms and one is a little worn (20+k on them and lots of dirt roads) and that could contribute to some chatter as there is play in the setup. i need to do a teardown and check for play in stuff.

i had a decent amount of shaft play on the trans.... enough that the bearing failed the other day. oops.

Brian

[Reaper1]

Thanks Brian. Now we're getting somewhere!

[Captain Chaos]

I have a 4 puck in the Horizon. I haven't driven it yet. HTH!

[shelbyplaya]

I have the 6puck with yellow PP. my motor set up is a 225whp/310wtq hybrid 2.5l 16v. I do 4500-5000rpm launches with slicks in a 3200 pound car. It grabs hard on the strip. During DD use with low rpm starts it chatters like a teenage girl talking on the phone and i have all solid mounts including a solid bobble strut. i find it to be a grabby clutch. if you have a high torque car you may notice your tires will cherp once in a wile when you get it rolling from a dead stop. you'll want a softer street tire.


all in all i do love the clutch. would i buy another one? yes, unless i make more power the justify the rev-loc!

[Reaper1]

That's almost my exact set-up(save the 16V part). I've got the tire situation covered. Chatter doesn't bother me as much as not being able to modulate the engagement.

What flywheel are you using?

[shelbyplaya]

That's almost my exact set-up(save the 16V part). I've got the tire situation covered. Chatter doesn't bother me as much as not being able to modulate the engagement.

What flywheel are you using?

stock fly wheel. BUT, I think I may have found the chattering issue. I might have a broken frount mount bracket! I had to pull the intake manifold off to change my oil dist. block.

Time to get my buddies welder back and reinforce the mount!

[Ondonti]

Chris, do you think you are capable of modulating the clutch even if there is very little clutch pedal travel? I would think your ability to adapt is the most important part of modulating the clutch.

Sometimes chatter distracts a driver from modulating the clutch properly because its like someone scratching their nails on a chalkboard. So people often drop the clutch quickly to make the sound go away.
My best success with my old clutch setup that chattered some (eurodrive) was when I totally ignored the clutch sounds and only paid attention to engagement. Driving like a pansy wont fix your chattering clutch and if you cant use your clutch (because it chatters) whats the point of having it?

I think if you can ignore everything about the clutch except engagement, you can make just about any clutch perform (as long as it holds when you are off the pedal). The life of the clutch might be shortened but I ask again, what is the point of the clutch then?

[tazaroo]

I have the 6 puck with yellow pressure plate on my 3300lb. Spirit R/T. I like it. I use my car for a DD and have about 250 at the wheels currently. There is some chatter when sitting still, but honestly it isn't bad. If It bothers me while at a drive through, all I have to do is push the clutch in to get rid of it. I have had mine for about 4 months now without an issue. I don't have to rev it more than normal at all to take off fine. Every now and then I get a little shutter. It just takes practice. I can modulate it some also although tougher to do than stock clutch. I have done some moderately hard launches on it at about 4k 4.5k or so just for fun. Going into 2nd seems a little tricky at times by being jerky if I'm not careful. Pedal fill is almost like stock to me. I also just had my trans redone with Cliff at the same time. All in all it seems to be great and I would recommend it. I'll give it a real test in a few weeks when I put down 350 to 400 whp on it.

[Aries_Turbo]

"chatter" and the noise the clutch/trans makes when sitting at rest with the clutch out are two different things.

when mine "chattered", it shook things, not just made a little noise.

Brian

[Sloride]

i have the 6 puck with blue pp and aluminum fly in a 90 g- es 2.5litre big valve head/ Obx in trans

i have over 4500 kms... the clutch only chattered abit at first, I find it really easy to modulate, so much so i usually drive with flip flops without any problems. If you pop the clutch (say 1500) in it engages hard and chirps the tires. In really heavy stop and go toronto traffic after awhile i find its harder to take off from a stop without riding stalling or chirping the tires <<its probably due to fatigue more then clutch heat.

the petal feels exactly like stock. I can take off from almost idle. downshifting is dependant on rpm matching.... if i dont match up it doesnt feel good. upshifting smoothly requires lightly touching the gas so the rpm don't fall to quick. To me it seems the faster I drive the easier it is to accelerate smoothly. slow accel requires a touch of finesse.



I would highly recommend, esp if your going alum flywheel 2.5
im currently in the 200ish hp 250ish tq club, till i have my cal come in.
(my goal is over 300hp 350 tq, some drag some auto x/track day)

[Reaper1]

You guys are awsome! I appreciate the feedback so much! Taz...LMK how your stuff does when you do put down the numbers.

I am planning on replacing my aluminum flywheel with a slightly heavier lightened steel one. Although I do like how the aluminum lets the engine rev fast and all, I honestly think that for my true use fo the car it *may* be too light. I also like to stock with the 2.2. I've had several 2.5's in the past, but I really do like how the 2.2 feels over the 2.5. I have no trouble woth torque, that's for sure! I already put down 291lb-ft at the wheels!!

So far the feedback has been 100% what I was hoping! Please keep it coming. I'll probably be making my purchase for my new clutch soon...I just don't know when I'll be able to install it...classes start back in two weeks! LOL

[shelbyplaya]

You guys are awsome! I appreciate the feedback so much! Taz...LMK how your stuff does when you do put down the numbers.

I am planning on replacing my aluminum flywheel with a slightly heavier lightened steel one. Although I do like how the aluminum lets the engine rev fast and all, I honestly think that for my true use fo the car it *may* be too light. I also like to stock with the 2.2. I've had several 2.5's in the past, but I really do like how the 2.2 feels over the 2.5. I have no trouble woth torque, that's for sure! I already put down 291lb-ft at the wheels!!

So far the feedback has been 100% what I was hoping! Please keep it coming. I'll probably be making my purchase for my new clutch soon...I just don't know when I'll be able to install it...classes start back in two weeks! LOL

If you want to get rid of the fly wheel let me know. My hybrid would love it

[Reaper1]

I will probably be selling it along wioth the brand new, sealed-in-the-bag friction surface I bought for it(It's probably going to need it in all honesty). It also got a little beat up when the old dual diaphragm pressure plate let go, but nothing detrimetnal, just causmetic...on a part you hopefull won't see much of! LOL

I'll post it in the FS section whent he time is right.

[Ondonti]

"chatter" and the noise the clutch/trans makes when sitting at rest with the clutch out are two different things.

when mine "chattered", it shook things, not just made a little noise.

Brian

What exactly are you responding to?

[Aries_Turbo]

What exactly are you responding to?

both you and tazaroo. taz with the first statement and you with the second.

it sounded like he was calling input shaft bearing noise, "chatter".

you sounded like you were saying that the distracting chatter was only noise that makes you prematurely dump the clutch. with my car, "chatter" shakes the dash and crap like that. not just a noise.

Brian

[Ondonti]

both you and tazaroo. taz with the first statement and you with the second.

it sounded like he was calling input shaft bearing noise, "chatter".

you sounded like you were saying that the distracting chatter was only noise that makes you prematurely dump the clutch. with my car, "chatter" shakes the dash and crap like that. not just a noise.

Brian

I was using an analogy about noise so it might have seemed that way.

[85glht]

I'm using TU's 4 puck disc and the blue plate with dual diaphrams. It is very heavy, BUT it doesn't slip when at the track, slicks, juice and 4500 rpm launches.
The car is an Omni, 2550lbs, with 350 hp. and 350 torque. It does chatter if the rpm's are too low when daily driven. These clutches do work but I would recommend not getting a dual diaphram plate............ my left leg hates me now.