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Thread: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

  1. #1
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    Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Iím resurrecting a Ď92 Lebaron GTC hardtop, 2.5 T1 with A568 manual and needing some help. This is my first Mopar and being a newbie thereís a lot I donít know about these turbo 4 cylinders. Iím familiar with boosted cars in general, but only with GM vehicles so this is a bit different. No flames please Ė being a GM engineer for 18 years you buy what you design and work on what you know, and having access to all the factory service manuals and tools keeps one from straying too far. So Iím really in the dark on this Lebaron although Iíve surfed Allpar and the 3 big turbo Mopar/Dodge forums for research so far so Iím getting there.

    My only real disappointment with all my blown GM cars is that theyíre all automatics, and I really missed driving a stick, so this Lebaron should be fun, and the fuel economy of the 4 cylinder is a plus these days. But, itís got to be the slowest turbo J car ever known to man! This brings up my first couple of questions Ė where are the timing marks, and how do you change the timing belt tensioner and set the cam timing? Iíve searched the forums for this basic knowledge but havenít found anything Ė I think my questions are just too basic.

    Initially after I got the car running, the turbo was frozen stuck Ė wouldnít turn at all, just a huge exhaust and intake blockage. This was originally why it was truly the slowest turbo Lebaron (might as well just say slowest Mopar) ever known to man. It was like driving with a throttle stop at 20% throttle. Itís a good thing Indiana is totally flat Ė she wouldnít run over 50 mph in 4th (2500 rpm) Ė just flat ran out of air. Putting her in 5th and dropping the rpm to 2000 helped a bit Ė now she had just a bit more headroom before maxing out the airflow and she could eventually hit about 60 mph.

    I drove it to work the next day and after lunch forgot that it literally would barely get out of it's own way and pulled out into traffic on US 31. With a semi barreling down on me I kept her in 1st at WOT and prayed she would pull past 3000 rpm. Well, apparently with repeated temp cycling, exhaust heat and oiling, at about 3500 rpm the turbo broke free! I hadn't hooked up all the wastegate and BOV lines since the turbo was frozen, so she pegged the stock 15 psi boost gauge real quick, but the engine didn't ping (with 87 octane gas) and honestly even at 15 psi the power wasn't impressive at all. I did manage to stay ahead of the semi so that was enough.

    So the little Mitsubishi turbo is free and spinning now, but after studying the hose diagram under the hood and hooking that plumbing nightmare up with all the T's and check valves, Iím only getting about 5 psi boost and itís still a dog. I have to say (no flames please), that the plumbing on my turbo Buicks is much simpler! I've seen conflicting posts, but I've read somewhere that this '92 SBEC-II ECM (which I understand may be really rare - thus probably hard to find any programming for unfortunately) does limit boost to 5 psi.

    I figured if it didn't ping at 15 psi and 87 octane, the timing must be way retarded, so Iíve advanced the ignition timing a bit and itís better, but the lower end is still soggy and in no way will it even chirp the tires. The throttle response is much better than before - it doesn't lay down after each shift now, but I still don't think it's where it should be even at 5 psi. Now itís idling at between 1200 and 1400 so Iím sure the timing is advanced too high, although I donít understand why the idle air control circuit canít compensate and bring the idle down. I would think I have a leak and itís getting excessive air, but the vacuum is good (15 psi or more) and I donít hear a leak.

    One of the things I donít know is how to actually check the timing. Iíve a friend at work here thatís a Mopar guy currently heavy into the Mitsubishi 3.0L on the TD forums. Heís pointed out that the timing indicator is on the flywheel. Iíve found a small window (had a piece of foam plugged in the hole) in the bellhousing and see the flywheel teeth through it, but I see no markings or a scale. Looking at the flywheel through the timing light, I think I see a timing mark on the flywheel but itís jumping around Ė I assume because itís under ECM control. I was told to unplug the coolant temp sensor to make the ECM go to base timing, but I canít find the sensor for the ECM (found the one to the dash). So whereís the scale to line the flywheel timing mark up against? It should be at 12 deg BTDC, but I don't know where to line up the marks to read it.

    The timing belt tensioner is making quite a bit of racket, and we thought maybe the cam timing is retarded, giving me poor bottom end, so I thought Iíd check this when I changed the tensioner. Any hints on changing the tensioner or setting the cam timing?

    Iíve got lots more questions, but this post is way too long already. Iíll ask more later! Thanks for any help yíall can give on these 2 immediate issues.

  2. #2
    two point two much fun Turbo Mopar Staff Turbodave's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    First off, Welcome to the forum!

    Sounds like your headed in the proper direction by going after the timing.

    For ignition timing there is a mark on the flywheel and there should be increments cast into the bellhousing right where you removed that plug from. 0 deg is typically the front edge of the hole in the bellhousing and 14deg is the beck edge of the hole. The coolant temp sensor you need to disconnect is located in the thermostat housing on the drivers side. It should have two wires leading into it. On your car the coil may be in front of it.

    The 90-92 cars do have a very complicated vacuum system, so you have every right to be confused about that. Stock boost should be in the 7-10psi range. 5psi is more typical of a car where the wastegate actuator is connected directly to a boost/vacuum source and is not being computer controlled.

    I would start with the cam timing and work from there since any changes you make there will probably alter the ignition timing anyhow. Check out the following site for instructions: http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/enginetiming.html

    Russ's minimopar site linked above and Gary's www.thedodgegarage.com are both great references.

    Once you've got the bugs worked out if the stock boost isn't where you would like it a simple manual boost controller should work for you. Without an intercooler it should still be safe to run about 12psi which shold be enough to have you laying rubber at will.
    Dave Tekampe
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    85 GLH-Turbo (DC intercooled)
    86 GLHS #107
    87 GLHS #148
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    89 Shadow Competition Package and lots more...

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    think there are only 3 big vac lines :intake to map,fuel pressure regulator,and waist gate, and then little ones like T into waist gate line for boost controller and gauge and such im shur im missing something though, and someone will correct me. ( get a distrabution block for vac lines and delete others)

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Thanks for the warm welcome to the group, and the links to Russ's site. I did find his site before but somehow my surfing didn't lead me to those timing belt pages.

    I did find the coolant temp sensor hidden behind my coil as TurboDave said it would be. My buddy Ed has older cars where apparently the coil is mounted on the fender, so he missed seeing the sensor on mine. I'll unplug it and clean the bellhousing off with some degreaser to find the timing marks and set the timing with a light.

    I did not understand what Turzbo meant by a vacuum distribution block, but I looked at Ed's Shadow today and he made one so now I understand. I actually had to use Shoe Goo to repair my factory one as it was torn and not available from the dealer anymore (either that or they wanted an insane amount for it). I see that a distribution block is the way to go.

    I'll be checking the timing belt and tensioner this weekend and looking for a air leak - either that or cleaning my IAC and throttle body to try to get my idle back down to normal. Hopefully I'll get these engine things squared away and start tackling all the other things that need repair!

  5. #5
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Welcome, welcome, welcome. I can only guess you work for Delphi. I worked there for 3 years. I spent most of my time in the validation group at Touby Pike and then at Plant 10 (not near enough time at Plant H). I could see that my job was about to go to Mexico (and it did shortly after I quit) and combined with my previous experiences with bad management at Pratt & Whitney, I decided to go back to school for my Ph.D. in business so maybe I can train some of the new people coming out of school how to actually think. I can only hope I'm successful.... less I digress.

    Timing belt tensioners tend to make too much noise when over tightened.

    Avoid Button Dodge like the plague. They don't know $hit, won't look anything up, and over charge. Amazing that Kokomo has such a bad Dodge dealer. The dealership in Noblesville was pretty good when I was there. There were guys working the parts counter that would 1) look stuff up, and 2) enjoyed anything with a performance orientation.

    High idle can indicate a vacuum leak. Check, check, double check, and recheck your double check to make sure you don't have one.

    I've been a Mopar guy all my life... too bad my Mopar friends in Kokomo are all into the old school stuff or I'd have some suggestions on who to talk to.

    I don't miss much about Kokomo, but going to Bunker Hill every weekend during the summer is one of those things.

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    idle may be caused by off ignition timing, but ther is a way to set it, ther is a set screw on the tb, but u have to unplug the tps and the master cyl vac line (back of intake on driver side) and ur suposed to do it in a certain order and i think its vac and then tps then set the set screw( ther may be a cover to pry out) and it should be a torx bit this screw is closer to the valve cover side of the tb, You sound smart enough to figer its location out

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    two point two much fun Turbo Mopar Staff Turbodave's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashercharged View Post
    Thanks for the warm welcome to the group, and the links to Russ's site. I did find his site before but somehow my surfing didn't lead me to those timing belt pages.

    I did find the coolant temp sensor hidden behind my coil as TurboDave said it would be. My buddy Ed has older cars where apparently the coil is mounted on the fender, so he missed seeing the sensor on mine. I'll unplug it and clean the bellhousing off with some degreaser to find the timing marks and set the timing with a light.

    I did not understand what Turzbo meant by a vacuum distribution block, but I looked at Ed's Shadow today and he made one so now I understand. I actually had to use Shoe Goo to repair my factory one as it was torn and not available from the dealer anymore (either that or they wanted an insane amount for it). I see that a distribution block is the way to go.

    I'll be checking the timing belt and tensioner this weekend and looking for a air leak - either that or cleaning my IAC and throttle body to try to get my idle back down to normal. Hopefully I'll get these engine things squared away and start tackling all the other things that need repair!

    Sounds like your learning quickly - The coil got moved to the thermostat housing in 91, so there aren't to many turbo mopars out there like that. A 92 GTC coupe with a Turbo 5spd is a rare find.

    Also, there are some good guys local to you that are into these cars, not sure when their next gathering is, but I'm sure you would be welcomed. May want to introduce yourslef in this thread: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1172
    Dave Tekampe
    Director SDAC National
    VP SDAC-Chicago


    85 GLH-Turbo (DC intercooled)
    86 GLHS #107
    87 GLHS #148
    87 CSX #161, #608, #674
    88 CSX-T #529, #541
    89 Shadow Competition Package and lots more...

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Some more quick questions - this is a non-interference engine right? The reason I ask - I'm in the process of replacing the timing belt tensioner - removed it, and had a brain fade and tried to turn the crank to check my cam timing. Of course, without the tensioner, the belt slipped and now it's definitely out of time. Did this about an hour ago, decided it was time to quit and get some sleep before I screwed something else up.

    I see from the writeup on Russ's site about lining up the marks on the crank sprocket and the sprocket next to it, I guess that's the balance shaft? So can I turn the crank without worrying about smacking the valves? I'm still not quite sure how the cam should be lined up - something about getting 2 holes straight up (to the head, the engine is set at an angle) and they should line up with some casting marks on the valve cover? I suppose this would be a good time to check the flywheel timing marks and see if they line up to TDC and look at where the distributor rotor points to.

    I was a bit confused following the directions on Russ's site, those must be from another vehicle family. I thought I was going to have to remove the motor mount, but it turns out to remove the lower cover half I had to unbolt the alt/water pump/AC comp bracket instead.

    My timing belt doesn't look bad, but I was wondering if I should change it anyway. What criteria do you look for to determine if the belt needs replacing? This is the rounded tooth belt.

    Ed told me to tighten the belt to the point where I can twist it exactly 90 degrees with my fingers -right?

    Thanks for the other responses, I'll respond later - too tired now, gotta get some sleep and get up in 2.5 hours to pick up one of my kids from Camp Buffalo and tow the Boy Scout trailer back and then get them all to the Greentown 4H county fair!

  9. #9
    turbo addict Tony Hanna's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Non interference.

    The sprocket next to the crank sprocket is for your intermediate shaft. It drives your distributer and oil pump and must be timed as well. A general rule of thumb for it is to pull the distributer and turn the intermediate shaft until the slot in the distributer drive is parallel with the block.

    The balance shafts are driven by a chain from the crankshaft which can't be seen without removing the oil pan and won't be affected by the timing belt.

    For lining up the cam, line the two marks on the cam sprocket up with the parting lines between the first cam cap and the head.

    I'd go ahead and replace the timing belt while you're that far into it. For no more than they cost, it's cheap insurance against getting stranded along side the road.

    There are some pretty good illustrations on Gary's site that should make things a little easier.
    http://www.thedodgegarage.com/timing_belt.html

    Hope This Helps,
    Tony

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    turbo addict TopDollar69's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Ive found it's much easier to set the cam timing with a drill bit. Find a drill bit that fits in the elongated hole in the cam gear. Then get the cam gear pretty close to straight up. Now set the plastic timing cover back over the cam gear with the little plastic plug pulled out. Install the drill bit in the elongated hole in the cam gear and get the drill bit centered in the hole in the timing cover. Make sure you have the valve cover bolts installed with the top nuts off so the upper timing cover sits at the correct level. This is by far the easiest way I've found to do it and know that its right. You just can't see those parting lines on the head when the engine is in the car. The 1990 up A523 and A568 dont have the timing numbers cast into the bellhousing for some reason, but the 1989 and older cars all do. I think the reason you didn't need to remove the motor mount is that they changed the design in 1990 to a different mount. It seems like most people on this site have 89 and older cars so they don't know all the finer points of working on the newer ones, especially the 91-92 8valve cars since they were so rare. Is your 92 Lebaron coupe a GTC? Any pictures, I was beginning to think that 91-92 Lebaron turbo coupes didn't exsist.

    Thanks,

    Ben Huebner
    84 Laser XE TII A555 89 Caravan SE TI A555

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    turbo addict TopDollar69's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    I would replace the timing belt, they stretch over time and can make getting the tension set correctly a real pain in the butt. When they get stretched out you will run out of adjustment on the tensioner, and the belt will always be loose.
    84 Laser XE TII A555 89 Caravan SE TI A555

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Thanks for the warm welcome to the group and all the advice. I'm about to head to the shop and finish up, it's hard to get time to work on my stuff with the kids and everything else going on. Sometimes I'm amazed at all the time I had before kids to get my things done, and to think I thought I had no time back then!

    To answer Chilort, the ex-Delphi engineer who wisely bailed just in time before the entire auto industry sank into a tailspin and is now apparently in Atlanta in grad school (at Georgia Tech I presume) - yes, I work at Delphi. I'm from the south actually, lived all my life south of the Mason-Dixon line - it's a different world down there isn't it? Only moved to Indiana about 20 years ago because Delphi, at that time called Delco Electronics and part of GM, was hiring. Those really were the good old days. Sounds like you worked here more recently in the past few years, so you missed the days when we were GM and when the entire auto industry was still doing relatively well, when we had a large motor pool and could check out company cars for weekends, vacations, etc.

    I was lucky to work away from management and all the politics for the most part - I worked as a spark and spark control calibration engineer and spent most of my time with a team of GM Powertrain calibrators out of the office in the engineering development vehicles at the proving grounds or on drive trips around the country or on chassis and engine dyno cells doing the calibrations. Had a lot of fun and worked with a lot of really talented guys, had a blast on drive trips especially with the camouflaged cars and trucks. Got a chance to work at some really cool dyno facilities and learned a lot.

    Because I've worked on so many GM products and with so many talented GM guys (and gals), I'll apologize in advance if I slip up sometimes and sound too GM biased but I'll try my best not to, I know there's talented engineers at Chrysler, Ford, etc. yes, even at the imports overseas - we have to admit, their stuff is really well engineered for the most part. Actually, the current LS3, LS7 spark calibrator is an ex-Chrysler guy, and one of the old-timers was an ex-AMC guy. These days especially, most automotive engineers have worked for several companies and/or competitors so that's pretty normal.

    Thanks for the warning about Button Dodge. I take it you don't know that they were bought out by McGonigal's Buick/GMC, who also bought out Kokomo Chrysler, and they're now located in the old Weise Oldsmobile building? Their prices are still high. I checked into caliper brackets for 11" rotors - $300 each from Button. I've a question about 11" brakes for this car, but I'll put a post in the brake section about that. Also needed grommets for my shift cables, but apparently you have to buy the entire cable - also about $300 each from Button! Looks like I'll be making another trip to Ray's Salvage yard.

    I enjoyed going to Bunker Hill Dragstrip back before I had kids too, especially in the days it was a 1/4 mile track instead of the 1/8 mile track it is now.

    Here's a pic of one of my shifter cable grommets:



    and the other that's totally missing:



    I didn't want to complain before in fear of sounding biased, but I always thought the shifter was the mushiest and sloppiest I'd ever felt. I just thought it was supposed to be that way, but now I see why! 4th sometimes would grind, and I sometimes have trouble getting 1st. Sometimes I have to shift into 2nd and then push into 1st. So I'm hoping fixing these grommets will fix these issues too, but if not, I suppose my syncros could be going out.

  13. #13
    two point two much fun Turbo Mopar Staff Turbodave's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Chrysler doesn't sell the shifter bushings, but there are other options besides replacing the cables. The first gen neons use similar bushings and there are replacement polyurethane bushings for them that work perfect on the 90-94 fwd mopars. A set of new bushings is usually in the $25 ballpark, and I know fwdperformance.com and turbosunleashed.com usually have them in stock.
    Dave Tekampe
    Director SDAC National
    VP SDAC-Chicago


    85 GLH-Turbo (DC intercooled)
    86 GLHS #107
    87 GLHS #148
    87 CSX #161, #608, #674
    88 CSX-T #529, #541
    89 Shadow Competition Package and lots more...

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    I already knew you weren't in management at Delphi: you actually know how to work on a car.

    Button Dodge is why I quit going to dealerships unless I absolutely had to go. I grew up in a small town along the Ohio river in southern Indiana with a good dealership. I was shocked to find out the people in the parts department didn't have access to the books and always charged full price.

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    turbo addict TopDollar69's Avatar
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Sorry, I just reread your post, and you siad in the first sentance that it's a GTC. Anyways, you can ask your brake question here, we don't mind.
    84 Laser XE TII A555 89 Caravan SE TI A555

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Thanks again for all the help everyone! Got the timing belt tensioner replaced, set cam and ignition timing to spec. Haven't driven her yet (too late) but she idles smoother and at a bit lower RPM - around 1150-1250 - still a bit high it seems. What RPM should the idle be? Checked for vacuum leaks but don't find any, of course with the mile of hoses I may have missed some, but I don't hear one.

    The old tensioner didn't really seem all that bad, just a slight amount of slop in the bearing and if you put it to your ear and spin it, it makes a bit of noise, but not enough that I'd think it would cause any problems. But, replaced it and my groaning timing belt noise is gone, so it just goes to show that it doesn't take much wear for something like that to be really bad under load.

    I ended up not changing the timing belt because I couldn't get the motor mount off. The old belt is a Goodyear Gatorback and looks to be in good shape anyway. I only used about half the range of the tensioner, actually I'm surprised at how loose the belt is, but I'm able to twist the belt almost exactly 90 degrees with my fingers (on the tensioner, or loose, side) which is what my buddy Ed suggested. He and Chilort both mentioned that if too tight, the belt or tensioner would make noise. I had it bit tighter at first and loosened it a tad and it does seem even quieter, but it sure seems loose. Put it this way, if I hadn't been advised against it, I would have assumed it should be a lot tighter than this (and been wrong!).

    Here's a photo of the engine mount that didn't come apart like I'd expect it would when I removed the 3 bolts at the arrows. The bolt connecting the 2 pieces of the mount is mostly removed. The 4th arrow shows the AC/Alt bracket I did have to move to get the lower dust cover off



    Here's a photo of the AC/alt bracket I did have to move slightly to get the lower dust cover off. I put the engine support on thinking that once I unbolted the motor mount, the 2 pieces would separate and the engine would drop, but they never separated.



    The timing belt looked fine so I was too lazy to struggle with figuring out how to remove the motor mount. I figured if I had to pry the thing apart, it'd just be that much harder to put it back together so I just left well enough alone.

    Here's another pic of the timing belt installed with new tensioner, and the AC/alt bracket moved out of the way. You can see the bolt immediately to the left of it that it should hang on.



    And here's the cover installed and the AC/alt bracket reinstalled. You can see the motor mount directly above the cover didn't need to be removed.



    Hopefully I'll get the chance to stop by the salvage yard tomorrow to find some shifter bushings. With the cam and ignition timing straightened out and some shifter bushings installed, she should drive like a different car!

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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Oh - I didn't see the latest response before I posted my latest. Thanks for the tip about the solid poly shifter bushings. Do the solid poly bushings make that much difference over the stock ones with the little holes in them? Guess I'm asking if they're worth changing out to later. I'll see what they have at the salvage yard first rather than order and wait for them to get shipped since I may need to make a trip to the Chicago/Rockford area in the next few days and would rather drive the Lebaron over my diesel truck (sorry - Duramax, not Cummings) for the fuel savings!

    Also I need to find a parking brake cable too. Here's what I need:



    That photo actually makes the paint job look good - amazing how misleading digital photos can be! That cable is the piece in the center console that attaches between the handle and the left and right cable going out under the car. Since it's broken, I guess I'd better check the cables under the car and the parking brakes themselves as something might be frozen. These rear disk brakes are the kind where the parking brake is actually a drum brake inside the hub of the rotor, right?

    Topdollar69 - you're correct, my bellhousing timing marks aren't marked - they're just lines cast in, no numbers. I just assumed that they start at 0 and go in 2 deg increments. Actually I had some problem even finding the marks at first, I didn't realize they were deep inside the window.

    And you're right, I'm finding out this car really is quite rare. According to this web site:

    http://www.pbase.com/rmscott/lebaron_conv

    it's one of only 25!

    I emailed the guy and he's said he got his info from Chrysler Historical Society or something like that. It's no wonder you haven't seen many 91-92 Lebaron turbo coupes! I'll try to dig up some photos of the whole car, I think I took some awhile back. Just recently I've only taken photos of various parts but not the whole car.

    Unfortunately, this one hasn't been taken care of in any stellar way. I don't know much of it's history, but it looks like it's been in Indiana all it's life as it has a Lafayette dealer decal. Original engine ventilated a piston so it has a junkyard engine in it now, I believe from a Daytona, although I do have the original engine on a pallet. Clutch was shot, lining gone and rivets on pressure plate. Throwout bearing noisy. Brake rotors were original with 112K on them. Turbo seized as I'd noted in my first post. Shifter bushings missing. Muffler rusted off some time ago, but the turbo and cat keep it fairly quiet so I won't bother doing anything with that - saving for that 3 inch.

    Body wise, it has some rust but I've seen worse. For a midwest car, it's not all that bad, but the drivers side rockers need replaced. If it were a non-turbo car, I wouldn't be messing with it - easier to just find a rustfree one instead. But being a turbo manual, and especially finding out it's 1 of 25, it's worth saving. Here's a photo of the rocker.



    Yes, that's a rust hole at the front. Do 93 and newer rockers interchange with this 92? I can find some of the newer Lebarons in the yard, the ones that don't have the hidden headlights, but I haven't seen any of the older ones. What about rockers from a Daytona? I haven't found any aftermarket body panel manufacturers stamping replacement rockers for these cars. The demand must not be there I suppose.




    I'm also needing the left quarter panel trim and right door handle, and the rear window metal trim. Again, do the 93 - newer pieces fit? Anyone have these parts (preferably in the right color) for sale?

    Oh - as for my brake question, I've posted it in the Brake section but this is basically what I said:

    The car has 112K miles and still had the original rotors - I know because both sides still had the factory retaining clips and were paper thin and warped like you wouldn't believe. Strangely though, the pads seemed relatively new - why someone would change the pads and not replace the rotors, especially in the shape they were in, I don't know.

    Being a GTC with factory 16" rims (205-55-16) and rear disk brakes, every parts store and even the dealer said it should have 11" rotors, but they're only 10.25". So what's the deal? Was 11" rotors a separate option? Apparently there was both a "Sports" and "Performance" suspension option for this model - which was the better one (better meaning more geared for handling) and how can I tell what I have? Is there an RPO code I should look for? Actually, maybe I should ask first, does Chrysler have different codes for various options, and are they printed on a sticker somewhere?

    Since I don't have 11" brakes, what's the easiest (and cheapest!) way to put them on? I think it would be minivan brakes, right? Do all minivans have the large brakes (i.e. which ones should I look for in a junkyard?), and what parts doe I need from the donor? I'd guess the minivan would have needed 15" wheels at least. Rotors I'd obviously buy new unless the donor ones look really good. Calipers I could turn in as cores. I know I'd need the caliper brackets. What about the master cylinder? Anything else? Note I already have rear disks.

    Thanks again for the advice!

  18. #18
    turbo addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    Sounds like you got the timing belt on just right. With top cover off, the timing belt should ride in center of the cam gear. Or at least that's what I've been told. Mine doesn't walk around while I'm watching it, but sometimes when I'm working on the car I will see that it is closer to one side than the other then it will switch.

    You might want to consider http://www.pullapart.com. The nearest location to you is going to be Indy (Lafayette is not the Lafayette you are hoping for). I've had quite a bit of good luck there and they say they can get cars for you (though I've never made a request).

    As for the brakes .... too new for me. I'm still running drums on the back of the Daytona. People do the dumbest things thought. I had a wheel cylinder fail on my '68 Sweptline (on the rear, I'd already converted the front to disc). When I pulled the drums the drums were totally shot. Someone had let previous set of shoes wear down to the rivets and let the rivets eat into the drum. They then just replaced the shoes. Of course, the huge groves in the drums ate the new shoes for breakfast. I thought I was in for an inexpensive wheel cylinder replacement ... nope. Though the truck is kind of funny. If the part is at all interchangeable with a muscle car, I can get it with no problem. Otherwise, the parts are even tougher to get then stuff from turbo Mopars.

  19. #19
    turbo addict TopDollar69's Avatar
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    Dec 2005
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    Ozark, Mo
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    I've seen it where people have replaced the 11 inch rear vented rotors with solid 10 inch units. Since you mentioned the factory clips though, that really throws me off. Could you snap a picture of the front and rear brakes for us? The option tag should be on the radiator suport or around there somewhere. Its about 3 inches by 2 inches and has the vin number along with all the 3 digit option codes.
    84 Laser XE TII A555 89 Caravan SE TI A555

  20. #20
    turbo addict TopDollar69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Ozark, Mo
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    Re: Help! I've the slowest turbo Lebaron ('92 T1 manual) known to man!

    After looking your pictures over again I can see the fender tag on the RH side of the radiator suport. If your timing belt is a goodyear, it has been replaced so no need to worry about that. The poly shifter bushings are much much better than the mushy factory ones. I tried several times to remove the factoy ones, and you just can't do it without wrecking them. Here is a link to the ones you need. It takes about 20 minutes to install them on the engine side, but i would do both ends for a nice firm feeling shifter.

    http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/prod...roducts_id=275
    84 Laser XE TII A555 89 Caravan SE TI A555

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