Turbonator LM Code - Wideband Discussion

[Frank]

For a default lc-1 w/b output it's linear. The above mentioned voltage points are the max and min, and 2.45 is 14.7 (calcualted from the above points). I figured I'd toss the info out there in case someone else with a lc-1 wants to try it. I'm going to try it eventaully, but I'm not in a hurry .

Yep. The Zentronix unit is 0v to 5v with 2.55 being 14.7. It is too similar to the TE unit. The Zen is AFR=(V*2)+9.6 so the 0v is 9.6 AFR and 5v is 19.6 AFR.

If you can get me similar information for the Innovate, I can implement that real easily.


Frank

[MiniMopar]

The other side of this coin...I don't know about all of you but I don't plan to keep the WB in the Daytona forever. I almost took it out already since BB60 is tuned perfect for it, but now I need to tune this cal. Rather than buy another one, my intent was to move it to the CSX and tune that with it. Also, the sensor's expected lifetime is much lower than a stock NB.

Just food for thought....

[Frank]

The other side of this coin...I don't know about all of you but I don't plan to keep the WB in the Daytona forever. I almost took it out already since BB60 is tuned perfect for it, but now I need to tune this cal. Rather than buy another one, my intent was to move it to the CSX and tune that with it. Also, the sensor's expected lifetime is much lower than a stock NB.

Just food for thought....

Well my plan is to keep using the WB in my car even though it is near stock. Since I don't run a cat, I plan on making it more closely have high O2 feedback. I am also going to make more changes to the car over a longer period of time - full 2.5" exhaust, better incooler or alky, etc. I don't plan on going past 15psi though.

It is also the main reason why I bought the C20 unit... simple. The daytona will get the crazy unit so I can log 2 inputs (fuel pressure and and a bosch wb knock sensor) and 4 EGT probes.


Frank


Frank

[risen]

Well my plan is to keep using the WB in my car even though it is near stock. Since I don't run a cat, I plan on making it more closely have high O2 feedback. I am also going to make more changes to the car over a longer period of time - full 2.5" exhaust, better incooler or alky, etc. I don't plan on going past 15psi though.

It is also the main reason why I bought the C20 unit... simple. The daytona will get the crazy unit so I can log 2 inputs (fuel pressure and and a bosch wb knock sensor) and 4 EGT probes.


Frank


Frank

I'm not planning on removing mine, 250$ is cheap insurance to keep things together. After I had a fuel pump dying on me, I don't think I'll ever not have a w/b on a boosted car. The car seemed normal, but the afr's would creep up in boost. On one hard run in boost it was almost 16:1 @ 20 psi, I lifted my foot with a quickness. I understand how people destroy engines with weak fuel pumps and my w/b saved my engine.

[MiniMopar]

I'm not planning on removing mine, 250$ is cheap insurance to keep things together. After I had a fuel pump dying on me, I don't think I'll ever not have a w/b on a boosted car. The car seemed normal, but the afr's would creep up in boost. On one hard run in boost it was almost 16:1 @ 20 psi, I lifted my foot with a quickness. I understand how people destroy engines with weak fuel pumps and my w/b saved my engine.

Something like that would show up on a venerable NB meter, though. The 2A0 is still the cheapest way to go for TE, even though it is being phased-out, but I can't see myself getting another one plus the sensor and meter and all that. I'm still a fan of the NB meter as a diagnostic/reassurance tool. You just can't do a real tune with one. To each his or her own.

It will always be in one of my cars, but it will most likely stay in the wilder one.

[risen]

Something like that would show up on a venerable NB meter, though. The 2A0 is still the cheapest way to go for TE, even though it is being phased-out, but I can't see myself getting another one plus the sensor and meter and all that. I'm still a fan of the NB meter as a diagnostic/reassurance tool. You just can't do a real tune with one. To each his or her own.

It will always be in one of my cars, but it will most likely stay in the wilder one.

True, I hadn't thought about using the n/b. Both my cars have a lc-1 at the moment so I don't really have a reason to remove it.

[Frank]

Well I didn't get a chance to try it out today. I got to a late start and all my efforts were dedicated to figuring out why hooking my LM to the TechEdge NB out was giving me fits! When I first hooked it up, I could not get it to run worth anything. I forgot that the NB out is not setup for NB out right away. I reprogrammed that out put and still no joy. So I reverted it back to stock and it would not start. GRRR!

If I hooked it back up to the TE, it would start, but would stutter alot. I started furiously ringing out some wiring, and found that my splice into the sensor ground (RED's Pin 25 - BK/LB) was hosed. So repaired that and whala! So then I hooked it back up to the TE and all is well again. Now that I have that golden, I just need to finish taking my compiled version of the WB Turbonator and making it match my current cal. Then tomorrow, after church, I should be able to give it a swirl.

Stay tuned!

[Aries_Turbo]

thats wierd frank, my techedge was setup right out of the box afaik. at least it works like it is.

Brian

[Frank]

thats wierd frank, my techedge was setup right out of the box afaik. at least it works like it is.

Brian

Like I had mentioned over the phone. I think it got jacked up when I reflashed the Techedge a week ago.

[bakes]

would it be posible when using a WB to set warning lamp say using the output on the upshift lamp to warn of a lean out at WOT ?

[Frank]

Well I found some problems in the code and am in the process of reworking it. I found that changing the branch statements, while on the right track, would call the wrong subroutine. I also found some places that also need further updates. I will post a new version soon for testing.


Frank

[Frank]

Here is a new version of the code. We shall see. I am awaiting the ability to scan the computer before I test. My current, borrowed scanner, wont read below a 1992. I am just going to wait for my USB stuff to show up to datalog.


Frank

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm not getting the point I think. You just want to be able to adjust the switch point in the ECU via the wideband's 0-5v signal? Why? I see the TE has a narrowband output that can be tweakable. My LC-1 does as well. Just seems like a lot of work that could screw things up when it's as simple as wiring the NB output to the ECU and tweaking it in the WB's program.

[Aries_Turbo]

its frank. thats why.

you get better resolution by going to a 0-5v range for o2 input rather than 0-1v. that combined with the fact that people are trying to figure out the o2 feedback system alot more means that you could have tighter control over the fuel feedback and less ping-ponging of the 02 volts.

really though, its an exercise in frank being an engineer and trying to tie too many systems together hehe

Brian

[MiniMopar]

Well, no one said it would be easy. Well, except for Frank.

Conceivably, one could use a very simple (and cheap) WB driver and sensor without a gauge and use that plus the cal to get more precise control over mixture. This would be more of a mileage mod than a performance one.

[Frank]

its frank. thats why.

you get better resolution by going to a 0-5v range for o2 input rather than 0-1v. that combined with the fact that people are trying to figure out the o2 feedback system alot more means that you could have tighter control over the fuel feedback and less ping-ponging of the 02 volts.

really though, its an exercise in frank being an engineer and trying to tie too many systems together hehe

Brian

That is pretty much it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

My XD-16/LC-1 only ping/pongs .2 of afr point or so. I have the XD car running at 16.0-16.2:1 and the ECU set to ignore it in boost. The G3/LC-1 car is set to run at 14.7 and it only flickers back and forth .2 of an AFR as well. Not sure how much more resolution you need at cruise?? With that afr/voltage curve almost straight up around your stoich it keeps things close to what you're shooting for. Guess I just don't see the point other than maybe some "engineer" trying to justify his education?? Frank did they teach you the K.I.S.S theory?

[Frank]

My XD-16/LC-1 only ping/pongs .2 of afr point or so. I have the XD car running at 16.0-16.2:1 and the ECU set to ignore it in boost. The G3/LC-1 car is set to run at 14.7 and it only flickers back and forth .2 of an AFR as well. Not sure how much more resolution you need at cruise?? With that afr/voltage curve almost straight up around your stoich it keeps things close to what you're shooting for. Guess I just don't see the point other than maybe some "engineer" trying to justify his education?? Frank did they teach you the K.I.S.S theory?

Well you are right about cruise, but imagine being able to target a/f outside of cruise. Just some thoughts.

I learned the KISS theory... I use it at work. Out side of work, I use the "If it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features." I have gotten alot better at KISS though. For this, I just mainly want to see if I can get it to work.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I guess with Logging and a flashable smec I don't need the ECU to try and hunt for a target a/f. Just drag the points on the curve a tad and go. I think that's a lot of the problem with the BB/LB cals. Trying too many features. Just document the stock calibration and adjust it.

[MiniMopar]

The main issue with BB is that it is customized to Geoff's setup. It has a lot of changes to the tables in the source assembly that make it very different from stock. I have no idea why he made many of them and they do not seem to work very well on stock setups. The problem was that when it came out there was no easy way to return it to stock without heavily customizing one of the old TBL files from the library or hand-modifying the tables in the assembly to return them to stock. Even then, most of those old cals did not have TBL entries for some of the things that were changed and there was no reference for the 3-bar tables anyway.

Rob took the time to make the tables in the source code as close to stock as possible, which is a huge help. I'm still not sure why Turbonator doesn't like to idle, though. I've been doing some revisions to BB60 in the meantime but at some point we need to figure out why the spark advance isn't coming out right.