Car stereo installation questions

[iTurbo]

I bought a new car stereo setup for my Shelby Lancer. It consists of:

Pioneer
DEH-P77DH CD reciever (1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit)
TS-A878 3.5" dash speakers
TS-1371R 5.25" front door speakers
TS-6991R 6"x9" rear deck speakers
GEX-P920XM XM tuner (IP bus connection)
CDIB100 iPod interface (IP bus connection)

...and a 60GB Apple iPod video.

I'm wondering what the best way to hook up the speakers would be. I have six speakers but the reciever only has four outputs. Should I splice the 3.5" dash and 5.25" door speakers together or will this mess up the impedance? Also, the reciever is rated at 45W x 4 (22W x 4 RMS). Is this enough power to run all six speakers? I think it would be fine for the dash and door speakers but the 6"x9"s I have are top-of-the-line Pioneer units and can handle 460W (80W RMS).

I'm thinking the best way to do this would be to hook the 3.5" dash speakers to the recievers front outputs, hook the 5.25" door speakers to the recievers rear outputs, and then get an external amp to drive the 6"x9"s.

This leads me to my next question. If I get an external amp to drive the 6"x9"s, would it work to use a four channel amp such as the Pioneer GM-6200F to drive the 6"x9"s in stereo, and bridge the other two channels to drive a Pioneer TS-WX101 10" subwoofer (3-channel operation)?

Somebody please help....I haven't bought an external amp or subwoofer yet and I want to know what I'm doing before I spend any more money!

[uwilluz]

I would go with the external amp, however, in my daytona... i ran some 4" dash speakers w/ the 5 1/4 door speakers, just spliced them together and they worked fine!

[Subliminal]

iTurbo,

Skip the 3.5s. They're worthless. Less than worthless, they'll mess up your sound stage.

I've been installing car stereos (not professionally) for about 15 years now. Probably have no less than 40 full installs in me at this point.

Installing component speakers is one thing, where the little speakers up front are just to play the upper frequency range, and the door speakers play the lower range. However, in this, you'll have speakers in the dash playing the same frequencies as the speakers in the doors, but doing a much worse job of it, and also doing it with less power, so the crappiest sounding speakers will be the loudest as well.

In a true competitive 'SQ' (sound quality) installation, you really only need 2 sets of speakers. A front sound stage (read stereo or 2 sets (could be component speakers or coaxial...whatever)) and a sub stage.

In my truck, for example, I have a pair of Focal speakers in the doors and a subwoofer behind the center console. The front speakers play down to about 85 Hz, and the sub fills in the rest.

The less speakers you have, the better defined your soundstage will be, and the more realistic the music will sound.

If you have any questions, feel free to shoot them over. Like I said, I'm pretty experienced in the ins and outs of this type stuff.

PS - Also, when you install the door speakers, your best bet is to get some sound deadening material and line the doors. This seperates the front of the speaker from the back (remember, a speaker produces the same amount of sound out the back, but opposite so it will cancel itself out without a 'box). Sound deadening makes the door into a box.

And realistically, the 6x9s should have the back seperated as much as possible from the front. The bass will show definite improvements with this...well worth it.

[shelbydave]

What he said.... Actually if you have the room, custom kick panels wiuld be the best. Try to keep as much up in front of you as possible.

[iTurbo]

I forgot to add that I'll be using aftermarket speaker wiring to connect all speakers because the factory wiring is 20 years old and pretty small stuff.

About the 3.5"; I planned on using them with the reciever's built-in crossover. Would this help or do you think I should return them?

How would you go about powering the speakers (with or without the 3.5"s)? If I get a sub, should I use a high-pass filter for the 6"x9"s? I'm just afraid the reciever's amp will not be powerful enough for the 6"x9"s.

[Subliminal]

Here's what I would do:

If the deck has crossovers like you mentioned:

Use the front channels of the deck to power the 5.25s in the doors.
Use the rear channels of the deck to power the 6x9s in the back

If you use a sub, use the crossovers in the deck to cross over the 5.25s and 6x9s at around 80-100 Hz. Do the same with the sub.

If I were you, I'd install just the 4 speakers first, running full range off the deck, and see if you're satisfied. The rating on the speakers mean nothing. I guarantee I could blow those babies with 50 watts or run them without blowing them at 500 watts. Pointless.

Anyway, try the 4 full range, see if you like them. Dynamat (sound deaden) all the surfaces so you have the best sound possible. You might be surprised, and won't have to deal with the extra space/weight/hassle of a sub.

If you aren't satisfied, I'd recommend a single sub and a monoblock amp for it. Then apply the crossovers. This will actually give more power to your crossed over speakers, because it is spread out over less of a frequency range. Follow?

Anyway, that's what I'd suggest, unless you're dead set on getting a sub, then just do that.

[JDAWG]

use the highpass in your receiver for the doors and rear speakers set arount 80hz or so, just gotta play with it, get a 2 channel amp and bridge it for a sub, or get a mono amp. Really it depend on what sub you have (how many coils and the imp. it is). Best thing to do really is use amps for all your speakers and subs, really it depends on how loud you want it and your budget.

[iTurbo]

OK, I'll install the 5.25 and 6x9s first at full range and see how it sounds.

I've never used the Dynamat stuff....does it stick to inside of the door panel or something or are you talking about stuffing the inside of the door with some kind of sound deadener material? What about just using baffles under the speakers?

I'm not dead set on getting a sub just yet...I don't want it booming or high SPLs or anything but I want it to sound good even at high volumes and maybe a bit more bass when I want it depending on what kind of music I'm playing.

[Subliminal]

I like to run a sub, but it definitely makes the stereo more complicated, uses some room, and the theft rate goes up about twofold.

As to the dynamat or whatever, you've got a few options of brands, but here's how it works:

The stuff is usually sticky on one side and metal on the other. I recommend Dynamat Extreme (get it from ebay for the cheapest), but a lot of other people like a lot of other brands. For teh (ha!) cheap, you can go to your local home depot or lowes or whatever, and go to the roofing section and get a roll of peel and seal. Same basic stuff, but cheaper. Cheaper money wise, harder to install, and a little more likely to peel off. That kind of cheaper.

Anyway, you pull off your door panel, and use acetone or rubbing alc or whatever to clean the metal surfaces on the door, then you basically skin the door. This keeps the panel from rattling, and also seperates the two sections. I have some pics of my van doors done at home, and I'll post one when i get there.

But, you peel off the backing, and start applying it to the clean section. You don't have to use a big sheet, you can use smaller cut pieces, and a wallpaper roller (little wooden wheel on the end of a handle) works well to press it down. A heatgun used to tack up the glue during installation helps too.

I've seen your tedious work at POR15ing, so this will be a no-brainer once you get going.

You'd be surprised at how much better your system will sound. You can't get ANY boom out of your speakers w/o sealing the back from the front. And you'll see how much boom you can get by sealing.

Anyway, i'll post a pic of a skinned door when i get home. I did up my minivan real nice.

d

[iTurbo]

Thanks for the help! I'll post again when I get some of this stuff installed. I just found out my reciever and iPod interface are on backorder though.

[Subliminal]

doh!

[Force Fed Mopar]

I hope you are using an adapter to plug the radio in to the factory harness, and not just cutting off the plug and wiring straight in? The factory wiring is fine for running speakers off of, unless you just really want the absolute best sounding system. Also, if you use the factory wiring and it has 6 speaker from the factory, the wiring for the dash speakers will already be there, no need to splice anything.

Even if you do run your own speaker wire, use the adapter plugs to plug in into the factory harness for the power, ground, lighting and such. Also it will keep your plugs intact, if you ever sell it later on, this will help the value, at least IMO. Nobody likes to see a bunch of butchered wires hanging out of the dash. Also it's a pet peeve of mine

I wouldn't run the 3.5" speakers though. I'd just get some good tweeters, put crossovers in front of them to keep the the low notes away from them and put them in the dash locations.

There's definitely nothing like having a pair of subs booming away in the back, if you're into that. It adds a lot of extra weight though, my pair of Concept 10's in the box w/ the Alpine 700W sub amp on it weighs at least 60 lbs.

[zshadow]

the wiring for the 3.5" will be there? when i pulled the door apart looking for the wiring to install the 5 1/4, there was no harness or wire there at all. but in the rear panels (6x9)'s the wiring was there... odd?

[iTurbo]

No, the wiring is no longer there on my car for the 3.5" dash speakers. That wiring was integrated into the wiring sub-harnesses for the original DEX-77 system with the external amplifier under the seat installed by Shelby Automobiles. Since the whole system is long gone from my car, the wiring is missing too. Only the regular black and grey connectors like every other Dodge/Chrysler. I'm going to use an adapter to connect it to the reciever, but I'd like to use new quality speaker wiring to connect the speakers instead of the factory wiring.

Will it affect the impedance if I wire the 3.5" and 5.25" speakers to the front outputs? I still think I will probably connect the 3.5" to the front outputs, 5.25" to the rear outputs, and then use a two channel amp to drive the rear 6"x9"s. That way I can adjust the balance between the 3.5" and 5.25" and use the recievers built in crossover for them and have better power for the rear 6"x9"s with the amp. Would this be impractical?

[Force Fed Mopar]

That's sounds like a good plan to me, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[Subliminal]

Sigh...

I guess you'll just have to try it before you're satisfied.

I wouldn't use the factory harness, either. I mean, that's like saying you shouldn't put a bigger exhaust on your car because the factory one was good enough.

A bigger power wire to your HU will help provide the power it needs to run its internal amp. A bigger ground will help it in the same way. The stock speaker wires are probably 22 gauge or smaller. I would recommend running 10 gauge to/from the deck for power, and then using maybe 14 gauge (wallmart sells good cheap speaker wire in the car section) for the speakers.

Again, why not get the optimal sound out of your system.

And to answer your question, you PROBABLY wouldn't have a problem with impedance running the 4 speakers on the 2 front channels of your deck, but the little speakers are probably more efficient, so again, the crappiest speakers in your car would be the loudest too.

If you didn't order them yet, I'd suggest rethinking them. If you did order them, I'd suggest returning them. If you had them, i'd suggest stock piling them. When all else fails, they MIGHT make good paper weights.

d

[WVRampage]

I have the DEH-7700MP and it is one nice unit im sure you will like it and also the GEX-920XM and im a big fan of both.

[iTurbo]

I have the DEH-7700MP and it is one nice unit im sure you will like it and also the GEX-920XM and im a big fan of both.

The reciever I got is actually the DEH-P77DH. It's a 1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit unit. Is the XM tuner pretty easy to control from the faceplate with the GEX-P920XM? Right now I have a Delphi Roady XT external unit. It's OK, but I really don't want to deal with an external control unit or the FM modulator (so-so sound quality).

[WVRampage]

The reciever I got is actually the DEH-P77DH. It's a 1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit unit. Is the XM tuner pretty easy to control from the faceplate with the GEX-P920XM? Right now I have a Delphi Roady XT external unit. It's OK, but I really don't want to deal with an external control unit or the FM modulator (so-so sound quality).

Yeah its easy to control if you set it up for catagory you just use the up down to go between catagorys and then left and right for up and down.

[iTurbo]

I changed my mind on the car stereo I bought. Instead of the GM/Chrysler fit DEH-P77DH, I'm getting a DEH-P6800MP It's very similar to the Pioneer DEH-P7700MP.

Biggest deciding factor was the iPod control. After reading up on the DEH-P77DH, I found out the iPod control wasn't all that great and would probably require pressing lots of buttons to navigate the contents of the iPod. The DEH-P6800MP on the other hand has 'full iPod control' with a 7-way rotary control and a much better display, front panel aux-in, more power etc.....all for the same price.