need help with a 2.5 TI cal

[Tony Hanna]

I'm working on an '89 TI all stock with the exception of an intercooler, 2.5" catless exhaust, 3bar map, and +40's.
I'm using Rob's 89_T1_MTX_3-Bar_SwBst_CE_+40 SMEC cal as a base. I figured it should be pretty close as-is considering how close my setup is to stock.
However, I'm having a problem with an extremely rich idle. At stock fuel pressure it's idling rich enough to black smoke and almost lope. Unfortunately I don't have a wideband yet, so I can't give an exact afr, but it holds between 7-9 lights on the narrowband with no bounce.
Can somebody give me some pointers on what to do in dcal to lean the idle afr out some? It also could use a touch less fuel cruising as I get no bounce from the narrowband there as well. I don't want to fool with the fuel in boost though since the egt's seem about right.
I know I'm not going to be able to get it spot on without a wideband, but at this point I'd settle for "close enough"
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Tony

[Aries_Turbo]

hmm seems something is off if you get no bounce at idle and cruise. is the FPR in good shape? fuel pressure?

Brian

[risen]

Maybe your injectors are more like the +45 injectors (55pph, or whatever it comes out to be). If that's all it is, turning the fuel pressure down a little may be enough to compensate for it. Anyways, the 3 main fuel tables are FuelPartThrottle_FromMap, FuelNoThrottle_FromMap, and FuelFullThrottle_FromMap. This is from a 89T2 based cal, so hopefully they're not different for the T!.

[Tony Hanna]

hmm seems something is off if you get no bounce at idle and cruise. is the FPR in good shape? fuel pressure?

Brian

I actually noticed it running rich from trying to dial my new afpr in. It would idle great at 15 psi and the closer I got to 55 with the line unhooked the worse it got.
I've got the stock regulator back on it now, and it's holding just shy of 55 psi with the vac. line off.
Thanks for the help!
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Maybe your injectors are more like the +45 injectors (55pph, or whatever it comes out to be). If that's all it is, turning the fuel pressure down a little may be enough to compensate for it. Anyways, the 3 main fuel tables are FuelPartThrottle_FromMap, FuelNoThrottle_FromMap, and FuelFullThrottle_FromMap. This is from a 89T2 based cal, so hopefully they're not different for the T!.

How would I tell? They're a brand new set of +40's from TU.
Thanks for the tips! I'll play with the fuel no throttle from map table first and see if I can get the idle sorted out.
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

ok, just opened it in dcal and found the full and part throttle tables, but I don't see any fuel no throttle table.

[Tony Hanna]

Since I can't find a table that deals directly with idle, what about dropping the pumping efficiency below 1500 rpm?
Am I right in thinking that if the ecu thinks that the engine is less efficient below 1500 then it will assume it's taking in less air and shorten the injector pw to compensate?

[cordes]

I was pulling my hair out with this same problem you are currently having. You might be able to read up on it by doing a search. I am being asked for the 30th time to sit down to a movie right now though...

If you figure it out please let me know, as I would love to use this cal and have it work.

[ShelGame]

I have a theory that think the latency of the 'new' +40's is way lower than the older injectors. If it's only way rich at idle, I'd try scaling the 'FuelBatteryOffset' table by 50% and see how that works.

At idle, the latency can be nearly the same as the PW for the bigger injectors. So, if the latency is off even a small amount, it can have a huge effect on the A/F. At higher PW's, though, it's less noticeable.

[butchsuppe]

Rob I have a question, I've been running the 89 T1 MTX 3 bar swbst ce +20 downloaded from D-cal on a 2.5 for 2 yrs now. It dawned on me that maybe the timing might be for a 2.2 Am I wrong ? Car just seems to pull timing too much under boost.

[ShelGame]

Nope, that should be a 2.5 cal. The only 2.2 cals I've published are for +40's and the Turbonator LM and Turbonator SMEC (if you build it as a 2.2).

[Tony Hanna]

I just wanted to say thanks to everybody who offered suggestions, and a big thank you to Brian for walking me through a solution to the problem over the phone yesterday.

cordes,
What we ended up doing was in the Fuel Baseline From Map table. We dropped the breakpoint at 20"vac slightly. That seemed to solve the rich idle. The part throttle cruise issue appears to be resolving itself as I've started seeing some normal narrowband o2 gauge bounce.

I'll probably take another crack at it at some point in the near future and try Rob's idea with the FuelBatteryOffset table because I like to tinker, but for now I'm really happy with the way it's acting.

Thanks again!
Tony

[cordes]

Good to know. Once I get my shadow back up and running I will have to give it a try.

[Tony Hanna]

Update:
Well, I must be doing something right because I incorporated the changes into the updated cal with the staging limiter. Car runs just the same, and Rob's staging limiter works great!
I also gave boost control back to the computer and played with the cal some more. The end result is a rock solid 20 psi of computer controlled boost.
Then I smoked the clutch.
I've never really been happy about a clutch failure before...
Time for a new one. I guess a tII/III clutch will be plenty for what I'm doing.

Next step will be to play with the boost vs. rpm and try to bring the wheelspin under control.

[cordes]

That's great Tony. Good luck with the clutch.

[Aries_Turbo]

Update:
Well, I must be doing something right because I incorporated the changes into the updated cal with the staging limiter. Car runs just the same, and Rob's staging limiter works great!
I also gave boost control back to the computer and played with the cal some more. The end result is a rock solid 20 psi of computer controlled boost.
Then I smoked the clutch.
I've never really been happy about a clutch failure before...
Time for a new one. I guess a tII/III clutch will be plenty for what I'm doing.

Next step will be to play with the boost vs. rpm and try to bring the wheelspin under control.

Nice job tony. have fun.

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

That's great Tony. Good luck with the clutch.

Thanks!

Nice job tony. have fun.

Brian

It's been a blast so far. I thought I was going to have to ask for some more help when I started fooling with the boost control, but I ran across an old thread where I was having a discussion with Rob about the same issues. I'd already asked and had my questions answered but completely forgot asking in the first place.
Thanks again for the help!

[butchsuppe]

Nope, that should be a 2.5 cal. The only 2.2 cals I've published are for +40's and the Turbonator LM and Turbonator SMEC (if you build it as a 2.2).

Thanks for the reply, it's a relief knowing I got the right cal. especially since there's a fresh eng. in the car now.

[Tony Hanna]

I have a theory that think the latency of the 'new' +40's is way lower than the older injectors. If it's only way rich at idle, I'd try scaling the 'FuelBatteryOffset' table by 50% and see how that works.

At idle, the latency can be nearly the same as the PW for the bigger injectors. So, if the latency is off even a small amount, it can have a huge effect on the A/F. At higher PW's, though, it's less noticeable.

I'm gonna give this a shot to see how it acts. Just to be clear, I need scale both axis by 50% right?
Thanks,
Tony

[ShelGame]

I'm gonna give this a shot to see how it acts. Just to be clear, I need scale both axis by 50% right?
Thanks,
Tony

No, just the Y axis (Injector PW). 50% is just a guess. If it turns out to be too lean at that point just scale it back up some.