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Thread: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    I'm using Ladybug60.zip for my base cal, at vacuum of 18in-19in, which fuel table do I adjust to bring up the a/f ratio from 13.2-13.5?

    I posted in MoparChem, but traffic is REALLY slow there.
    http://www.moparchem.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19

    When follow the link by Geoff, I can't download the 89SmecCompare.zip
    Says "You are not authorised to download this attachment"

    Any help will be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    I believe the LB60 cal had probelms with idle fueling due to the way the 02 sensor values were setup. As Geoff mentioned in one of those threads, it's a ramp problem. I don't think it's something you would want to correct with a table update since the tables are probably OK.

    I believe the information you need to correct the ramps is in the post with the file you were attempting to download. If you look at the lines where things are set to 2 digits above, and the line below has a 00 at the left, those addresses need to be changed in the cal to match the upper line.

    So, using the example below, you would need to look at your cal to find where the PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0 constants are in your cal, and set them to 05 and 1A (they should be 00 and 04). You would need to do this for all the ramp addresses listed in the post. Beware, the actual numeric addresses (leftmost part of the lines below) may or may not match up, so you should probably do it with dcal.

    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0: const rich/lean
    00000392: 05 1A
    00000393: 00 04


    You would need to be logged into the old moparchem board to be able to download stuff from it. If you were only logged into the new board, you probably won't be able to download.

  3. #3
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    No way I can use Chem for this?

    When I use Dcal to open my calibration file, all I get is blank.

  4. #4
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    I believe that when the cal gets built the .calx file doesn't include info for those. It doesn't have a .tbl file for dcal in the directory where you built the cal?

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    All I have is .bin and .calx files.

  6. #6
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    If you rebuild the cal from source it will give you a .tbl and a .calx. I'm not sure that you can just take a .tbl from any LB60 cal, because the addresses may be off depending on how it was built.

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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    sorry for hijacking this, but since I am as well at this problem, I don't get it.

    @Risen, you mentioned this:

    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0: const rich/lean
    00000392: 05 1A
    00000393: 00 04

    Now, to cut all short: I don't understand where and how to set this value. Looking at my LB60 .asm I find this:

    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0:
    .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell0
    .word 0x0500

    ;.org 0xc394

    So, to do it in code I should set this it like this?:
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0:
    .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell0
    .word 0x051A

    ;.org 0xc394

    And if so, I suppose I have to do this with all the values from that listing posted on moparchem, correct?

    THX
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  8. #8
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    I believe that is exactly what's needed. You may not need to recompile though, you could probably use dcal to edit the ramps (for some reason they didn't show up in chem when I looked last). In either case, here's what's in the the LB60_stock version which, I believe, had the ramps returned to standard 89 t2.

    Code:
    ; *****************************************
    ; For each cell, the first number is "rich", the second is "lean".
    ; If the O2 sensor is returning a lean value, "rich" kicks are added.
    ; If the O2 sensor is returning a rich value, "lean" kicks are added.
    ;
    ;     KICK - (factor * 512) - 512  (unsigned number)
    ; eg: $19  -   1.05  * 512  - 512 - 5%
    ; *****************************************
    ;              KICKS
    ;           Rich, Lean
        ;.org   0xc392
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell0
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc394
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell1:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell1 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell1
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc396
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell2:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell2 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell2
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc398
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell3:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell3 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell3
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc39a
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell4:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell4 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell4
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc39c
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell5:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell5 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell5
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc39e
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell6:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell6 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell6
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc3a0
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell7:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell7 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell7
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc3a2
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell8:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell8 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell8
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc3a4
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCellIdle:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCellIdle in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickIdle_Cell
        .word   0x0101
    
    ; *****************************************
    ; The Limits are the maximum number of kicks that may be applied to each
    ; cell. If the O2 sensor fails to toggle after reaching the limit for more
    ; than a few seconds, the AutoCal cell gets changed.
    ; *****************************************
    ;             LIMITS
    ;           Rich, Lean
        ;.org   0xc3a6
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell0:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell0
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3a8
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell1:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell1 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell1
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3aa
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell2:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell2 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell2
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3ac
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell3:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell3 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell3
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3ae
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell4:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell4 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell4
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b0
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell5:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell5 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell5
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b2
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell6:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell6 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell6
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3b4
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell7:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell7 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell7
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b6
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell8:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell8 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell8
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b8
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCellIdle:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCellIdle in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCellIdle
        .word   0x0101
    
    ; -----
        ;.org   0xc3ba

  9. #9
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Quote Originally Posted by risen View Post
    I believe that is exactly what's needed. You may not need to recompile though, you could probably use dcal to edit the ramps (for some reason they didn't show up in chem when I looked last). In either case, here's what's in the the LB60_stock version which, I believe, had the ramps returned to standard 89 t2.

    Code:
    ; *****************************************
    ; For each cell, the first number is "rich", the second is "lean".
    ; If the O2 sensor is returning a lean value, "rich" kicks are added.
    ; If the O2 sensor is returning a rich value, "lean" kicks are added.
    ;
    ;     KICK - (factor * 512) - 512  (unsigned number)
    ; eg: $19  -   1.05  * 512  - 512 - 5%
    ; *****************************************
    ;              KICKS
    ;           Rich, Lean
        ;.org   0xc392
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell0:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell0
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc394
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell1:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell1 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell1
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc396
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell2:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell2 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell2
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc398
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell3:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell3 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell3
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc39a
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell4:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell4 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell4
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc39c
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell5:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell5 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell5
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc39e
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell6:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell6 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell6
        .word   0x1a04
    
        ;.org   0xc3a0
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell7:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell7 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell7
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc3a2
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCell8:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCell8 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickCell8
        .word   0x1a05
    
        ;.org   0xc3a4
    PRIRMP_PrimaryKickCellIdle:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryKickCellIdle in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanKickIdle_Cell
        .word   0x0101
    
    ; *****************************************
    ; The Limits are the maximum number of kicks that may be applied to each
    ; cell. If the O2 sensor fails to toggle after reaching the limit for more
    ; than a few seconds, the AutoCal cell gets changed.
    ; *****************************************
    ;             LIMITS
    ;           Rich, Lean
        ;.org   0xc3a6
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell0:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell0 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell0
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3a8
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell1:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell1 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell1
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3aa
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell2:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell2 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell2
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3ac
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell3:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell3 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell3
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3ae
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell4:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell4 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell4
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b0
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell5:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell5 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell5
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b2
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell6:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell6 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell6
        .word   0x0f0f
    
        ;.org   0xc3b4
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell7:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell7 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell7
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b6
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCell8:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCell8 in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCell8
        .word   0x1515
    
        ;.org   0xc3b8
    PRIRMP_PrimaryLimitCellIdle:
        .chem 4 n PrimaryLimitCellIdle in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 256 out PRIRMP RichLeanLimitCellIdle
        .word   0x0101
    
    ; -----
        ;.org   0xc3ba
    Tried these, doesn't seems to help the idling rich problem. How do I decompile the stock TII cal?

  11. #11
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Just out of curiousoty, have you tried LB60 stock, or any of the turbonator smec cals?

  12. #12
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    What do you mean LB60 stock?

    I haven't try any turbonator SEMC cals.

    I have 83lbs injectors, I really like the easiness to scale the injectors of the Ladybug60.zip. I tried 89_T1_MTX_3-Bar_SwBst_CE.zip, but the tables names are all different, I didn't want to risk miss adjusting one table.

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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Try Turbonator SMEC - it's different from my old cals. All the names are the same (except where there is no corssover). And, you can scale injectors the same as in LB/BB.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  14. #14
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Is Turbonator spark timing table for 2.2L or 2.5L?
    Last edited by tryingbe; 05-28-2008 at 10:56 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Is Turbonator spark timing table for 2.2L or 2.5L?
    To answer your earlier question, LB60 stock is ladybug 60 with all the tables and constants put back to a stock 89 T2. It would have the 02 kick correction I posted above set back to stock and various other things. I'm a little curious as to why the kick adjustment didn't fix your car, but maybe it has to do with the 83 pph injectors and something like the injector opening time table (Rob mentioned it in another post).

    As to the turbonator and 2.2vs2.5 timing tables, it depends on how you build the calibration. If you get a copy of the source, in the ASM there's a variable to build for 2.2L instead of 2.5L. There are one or 2 things that needed to be adjusted for the 2.2L. I believe it's all documented in the turbonator smec thread.

  16. #16
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    Is Turbonator spark timing table for 2.2L or 2.5L?
    Both sets of calibration values are included in the source - it just depends on how you build it. One major difference though - it uses T1 (bleed) style boost control regardless if it's built for 2.2 or 2.5. If you want the T2 (signal) boost control, you should use LB - for now.

    The 2 items that need to be corrected in the 2.2 cals are already corrected for Turbonator SMEC v13. I'm just waiting to do a little more work on it (boost control) before I release it.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  17. #17
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    I'll wait for the V13. I'm using a G-valve to boost to 10psi, so boost control is not a concern for me right now.

  18. #18
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Quote Originally Posted by tryingbe View Post
    I'll wait for the V13. I'm using a G-valve to boost to 10psi, so boost control is not a concern for me right now.
    If that's the case, you can make the 2 changes to v12 that are listed in the thread and run v12.

    Not to totally hijack-
    Rob: are you going to make it an additional option to build the T1 or T2 style wg control for v13 or are you going to decide which routine to build based upon the 2.5/2.2 switch? Just curious, as there may be people who want to run the T1 control with a T2 motor like those who've swapped engines, but not WG solenoids. I suppose in the end whoever builds the cal can make the adjustment themselves, but maybe the seprate switch would be useful for some people.

  19. #19
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    Re: Adjusting fuel at idle for Ladybug

    Quote Originally Posted by risen View Post
    If that's the case, you can make the 2 changes to v12 that are listed in the thread and run v12.

    Not to totally hijack-
    Rob: are you going to make it an additional option to build the T1 or T2 style wg control for v13 or are you going to decide which routine to build based upon the 2.5/2.2 switch? Just curious, as there may be people who want to run the T1 control with a T2 motor like those who've swapped engines, but not WG solenoids. I suppose in the end whoever builds the cal can make the adjustment themselves, but maybe the seprate switch would be useful for some people.
    The plan was to add T2 style WG control as a build option for either engine option. Maybe even add a 3rd (custom) boost control scheme.

    The WG solenoid shouldn't make any difference. I think all of the T2 WG solenoids are 3-port anyway. You just have to change the routing, and which port gets plugged.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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