Turbonator LM codebase

[Aries_Turbo]

nice to chitchat with you tonight amc. (i forget your real name though, sorry). sorry i had to run. my phone was going dead and i had some friends over too lol. they were fine watching tv though.

Brian

[risen]

thats why i want to view the memory location with reference to cyl firing. the OTC scanner (an i think jeffs programs im pretty sure) already shows knock voltage anyway.

i think you guys are missing what im looking for. all i want to see is knock voltage when there isnt knock, ie the noise threshold that the engine makes WHEN THERE ISNT KNOCK and that is fairly steady state. the specific thing that im thinking about is being able to see that voltage THAT IS ALREADY LOGGED BY THE ECU AND OTC SCANNERS but split into 4 logged values with reference to which cyl it is so i can find a good position for a knock sensor on a hybrid motor.

we already have great knock detection for what we are doing. i just want to log non-knock values. id run race gas and less timing so i knew i wasnt getting knock.

Brian

You should be able to do this with the winlog plugin. There should be a checkbox for raw knock sensor voltage. It just pulls the value from memory every time the program requests it, which may or may not give you enough resolution. It would also depend on how quickly the LM reads the a/d converter and stores it to that variable.

[risen]

BB60 with 72 pph injectors using pump gas to C12 fuel idles great in my CSX with auto trans. T-LM does not. It seems to have a slow lean to rich swing that won't go away. Seems it wants to stay on the rich side of the swing even with tuning the fuel down.

Thx, I guess we can rule the automagic timing differences out. I changed the T-LM idle advance calculation to be like bb60 and it seems better (or at least more to my liking). I really need to do a back to back warm idle test with the 2 cals to be sure.

[ShelGame]

Here's something to try if you guys want to (might fix the rich idle thing):

Open your T-LM cal in D-Cal or CHeM2 and change 'MP1_AutocalMapCellBoundary1' from 0x18 to 0x1B.

This is the MAP value for the 1st autocal cell boundary. The stock (2-bar) value is 0x24. This scales to 0x18. But, this is -10.5psi. Which is near where some cars idle. So, it's possible that you're actually running in cell 2 - instead of cell 0 - at idle. Which might make it run rich (it also might not - I'm not sure). 0x1b = -10.0 psi.

BB60 uses the 0x1b value. T-LM and BB60_Stock use the 0x18 value. It's worth a shot.

[Frank]

Very interesting! I maybe able to give this a try tonight.

[amcpacer]

I just edited MP1_AutocalMapCellBoundary1 on the 2 bar version of this cal to reflect -10psi instead of -10.5psi. I will try it out in a couple of hours. Thanks Rob!

[Aries_Turbo]

You should be able to do this with the winlog plugin. There should be a checkbox for raw knock sensor voltage. It just pulls the value from memory every time the program requests it, which may or may not give you enough resolution. It would also depend on how quickly the LM reads the a/d converter and stores it to that variable.

you guys are still not understanding what im looking for. i know i can read knock volts from multiple programs!!!!!!!

i already know this. i guess im not explaining it well or correctly.

what i want to see is the raw knock value with an indicator for what cyl just fired to create that knock voltage on the knock sensor. the ecu already has to know what cyl just fired to determine how much timing to pull from that cyl. what i want to be able to know is how much noise each cyl individually generates to the centrally mounted knock sensor to make sure that i have it in a good location.

here is an example:

KNOCKVOLTS1  |  KNOCKVOLTS2  |  KNOCKVOLTS3  |  KNOCKVOLTS4

    2.40V    |     2.35V     |     2.23V     |     2.45V

I want to see the knock voltage that the ecu grabs for each cylinder individually. I dont care if there is actual knock.... actually i do. i dont want the car to knock during my testing. ill make sure it doesnt. this has nothing to do with actual detonation. it has everything to do with individual cylinder background noise and the amount of signal the knock sensor is generating with reference to the cyl that just fired.

I know that i wont see every event on a serial datalog but it will grab data every so often so if i make the engine rev slower (ie brakes) i can get a good sampling on how much noise each cyl is transmitting to the knock sensor. you dont see every event from any of the sensors when you are datalogging them serially.

I know the serial stuff is slow. what i am proposing is to grab not only the raw knock value but also some kind of cyl designation in one shot. like one byte of the raw knock value and one byte of which cyl it was when the raw knock value was grabbed.

arent the MPH and RPM 2 byte values in a stock cal? the ecu already has to have some kind of memory location for what cyl has fired to do the knock retard per cyl calculation. could that be snagged alongside the knock value? could the memory location be changed to right next to the raw knock value so they can be snagged in one shot?

is that more clear?

cool find on the potential idle issue. ill have to try that soon.

Brian

[risen]

you guys are still not understanding what im looking for. i know i can read knock volts from multiple programs!!!!!!!

i already know this. i guess im not explaining it well or correctly.

what i want to see is the raw knock value with an indicator for what cyl just fired to create that knock voltage on the knock sensor. the ecu already has to know what cyl just fired to determine how much timing to pull from that cyl. what i want to be able to know is how much noise each cyl individually generates to the centrally mounted knock sensor to make sure that i have it in a good location.

here is an example:

KNOCKVOLTS1  |  KNOCKVOLTS2  |  KNOCKVOLTS3  |  KNOCKVOLTS4

    2.40V    |     2.35V     |     2.23V     |     2.45V

I want to see the knock voltage that the ecu grabs for each cylinder individually. I dont care if there is actual knock.... actually i do. i dont want the car to knock during my testing. ill make sure it doesnt. this has nothing to do with actual detonation. it has everything to do with individual cylinder background noise and the amount of signal the knock sensor is generating with reference to the cyl that just fired.

I know that i wont see every event on a serial datalog but it will grab data every so often so if i make the engine rev slower (ie brakes) i can get a good sampling on how much noise each cyl is transmitting to the knock sensor. you dont see every event from any of the sensors when you are datalogging them serially.

I know the serial stuff is slow. what i am proposing is to grab not only the raw knock value but also some kind of cyl designation in one shot. like one byte of the raw knock value and one byte of which cyl it was when the raw knock value was grabbed.

arent the MPH and RPM 2 byte values in a stock cal? the ecu already has to have some kind of memory location for what cyl has fired to do the knock retard per cyl calculation. could that be snagged alongside the knock value? could the memory location be changed to right next to the raw knock value so they can be snagged in one shot?

is that more clear?

cool find on the potential idle issue. ill have to try that soon.

Brian

I see now. So you want to know both of which cylinder just fired and the raw knock voltage. I seem to recall that there's a comment in the bb60 code that says that there's a byte where the high 2 bits can be used to know which cylinder just fired. I forget exactly how it does that, but maybe pulling that byte out too will be enough to give you the info you need. If you look through the ram locations at the beginning of the code you should see the comment.

[jpcturbo]

Yeah I knew what you are looking for. Ok, mostly. Much like discussed at the SDAC tech session (optimal sensor location). Knock, belt slap, noisy lifter, all the same events.

Top bits of CylinderRetard1 supposedly may almost have the current cylinder.

I feel an update of LMLog coming.

Thanks for the support on my recient trip to Escanaba, MI(U.P. horror).

Jeff C.

[Aries_Turbo]

cool, thanks jeff.

in dont know the exact limitations or capabilities of the serial interface. can it pull both the raw knock and the cyl last fired at the same time so you arent affected by the serial speed (or lack thereof)?

cool.

Brian

[MiniMopar]

I would not trust that the two values are in sync if transfered during different serial transactions. I would mask the lower two bits of the knock voltage and lose a bit of precision and pack the cylinder number in there.

[Aries_Turbo]

I would not trust that the two values are in sync if transfered during different serial transactions. I would mask the lower two bits of the knock voltage and lose a bit of precision and pack the cylinder number in there.

thats what frank was saying when i was chatting on the phone.

Brian

[Frank]

I would not trust that the two values are in sync if transfered during different serial transactions. I would mask the lower two bits of the knock voltage and lose a bit of precision and pack the cylinder number in there.

thats what frank was saying when i was chatting on the phone.

Brian

Is that a 0-5 or a 0-12 volt A/D input? Worse case is it is a 12 volt input as you would lose the most precision. If it is a 0-5 volt, then the accuracy could be as wrong as 0.06 volts.

[risen]

I would not trust that the two values are in sync if transfered during different serial transactions. I would mask the lower two bits of the knock voltage and lose a bit of precision and pack the cylinder number in there.

I had thought about the same thing on my way to work this morning. It could easily be added to the serial routine in the T-LM code much like Geoff's one byte RPM and MPH addresses.

Is that a 0-5 or a 0-12 volt A/D input? Worse case is it is a 12 volt input as you would lose the most precision. If it is a 0-5 volt, then the accuracy could be as wrong as 0.06 volts.

The knock table is 0-5v and my understanding is that all the a/d converters on the LM are 8 bit 0-5v converters.

[Aries_Turbo]

so there you have it. another amazing idea from me that i cant possibly implement and could barely describe!!! (first one was the alky injection control) hehehe

Brian

[cordes]

I took the omni to school today and it ran fairly well.

I have a couple of questions about TLM though.

Does anyone know the address for the constant that determines how long the fuel pump primes for when you flip the key to on? I believe I have to prime the car multiple times after the pressure has bleed down because I have a larger volume to fill with the custom rail, and much longer AN lines.

Does anyone else have a problem with this cal idling at full lean? I thought I had seen some TLM cals which have had the pumping efficiency table cranked way up in the lower RPM range to solve this, but I was wondering if that was really the case. I cranked up my peftbl at about 1K RPM to 90 today to see if that helps at all. I will know tomorrow when I test it I guess.

[Clay]

This reminds me...... I need to get back into testing the turbonator cal.......... thanks for the update Mr. Cordes!

[cordes]

This reminds me...... I need to get back into testing the turbonator cal.......... thanks for the update Mr. Cordes!

Any time. I have mine running pretty well in hot and cold conditions. If I can get the two aforementioned items worked out I will be very happy with the cal. Of course if I could ever get my boost problem solved I would be ecstatic.

[cordes]

I cranked up the peftbl to 92% at the second point and it is idling much better and the transition between on and off throttle is much better due to the better AFR I suspect.

[OnLooker]

Does anyone run this cal in an automatic? I took the cal scaled it for +20s and all seems well, running 18psi. When I stop and try to build boost on the brake and take off it will only go to 8psi and is lean. It keeps doing this until I stop and take off again, no matter how many times I let out and get back it in I can only get 8 psi and it is lean. If I take off from a stop and just mat it I can get the 18 psi no problem and the a/f is perfect. Other then this issue the car seems to run really well.

Thanks
Andy