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Thread: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

  1. #1
    boostaholic
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    Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Okay guys, I finally got around to pulling the head off my GTS. Again.

    Anyway, there's no crosshatching left on the block and it's time for an overbore. How much? I'll let my machinist make that decision. Anyway, I am considering Forged Venolias.

    I'm not so good at tuning cars, but I was considering cast Mahles because they're considerably cheaper.

    This car has been a real trooper in terms of taking abuse. I don't know why, the car is mostly stock but it does not have a fuel cutout. I set boost at 17psi and my A/F gauge was still rich. Stock injectors, no MAP bleed or zener diode.

    Only reason I had to pull the head off (the first time) was because the nut on the end of the compressor shaft decided to take a vacation. The second time I pulled the head was because the "rebuilt" head I put on had a bad valve.

    I will have a 13 second car this summer. What can Mahles hold up to in terms of boost?

    Car is as follows:

    2.2L TII engine, 555 trans, new clutch, bathtub head w/slider cam, 2.5" exhaust. And as much boost as I can throw at it.

    Are Venolas really worth it? Where can I find Wiseco's? I'd like to know what my options are. All I know of is FWD-P and they only sell Venolias.


    Also: It looks like someone took off the radiator cap in this car and laid a big shyte in there. Since the car isn't going to be running for a few months, is there some kind of fluid I can put in there and let it sit to dissolve the poo?

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_P View Post
    Where can I find Wiseco's?
    http://www.turbosunleashed.com/shop/

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_P View Post
    Also: It looks like someone took off the radiator cap in this car and laid a big shyte in there. Since the car isn't going to be running for a few months, is there some kind of fluid I can put in there and let it sit to dissolve the poo?

  3. #3
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanman²'s Avatar
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Wiseco's are good but they use a special ring pack and there expensive, Venolia's are noiser but use regular rings.

    CLR works great but bewarned that it can cause leaks if the calcium was plugging up the holes.

    Mahles can take alot of abuse, some put 400 hp thru them but one tuning mistake and you have 4 ashtrays. Also, Cindy said the oversize Mahles are in limited supply and when there gone, there gone. I would go forged and be done with it. If the bores are scratched and you can just catch your fingernail on the ridge, .020" should be fine but have the machine shop double check before you order them.
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  4. #4
    boostaholic
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Looks like I'm stuck with the Venolias anyway, they don't have any oversize mahles left.

    Thanks for the CLR question, I'll definitely do that.

    I have a few more questions for you, simon.

    Its been a few years since I've rebuilt a motor.

    I am going to plastigauge the main and rod bearings. If the clearences are alright, I'm going to replace the bearings. Need I whip out the dial indicator if the bearing surfaces look okay?

    Since I will need new pistons (old ones had wrist pin slap like you wouldn't believe) will the rods be okay? I don't know if wrist pin slap damages rods. Should I bother having my machinist take a look at them?


    Should I bother messing around with the intermediate shaft bearings?

  5. #5
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    What is the tightest skirt clearance that you can get away with on a Venolia?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][FONT=Comic Sans MS]'91 Shadow convertible 2.5 auto, three core RP IC, S60/.48 stg 1, ported two-piece intake/52mm TB, Menegon +1 swirl, 88 turbo cam, Venolias, Crower rods, TU deep sump pan, ported exhaust, 3" from SV to TP, Hughes TC, Peloquin diff, DSS L5 driveshafts, Shelgame cal, Koni struts/shocks. [/FONT]

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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_P View Post
    Looks like I'm stuck with the Venolias anyway, they don't have any oversize mahles left.

    Thanks for the CLR question, I'll definitely do that.

    I have a few more questions for you, simon.

    Its been a few years since I've rebuilt a motor.

    I am going to plastigauge the main and rod bearings. If the clearences are alright, I'm going to replace the bearings. Need I whip out the dial indicator if the bearing surfaces look okay?

    Since I will need new pistons (old ones had wrist pin slap like you wouldn't believe) will the rods be okay? I don't know if wrist pin slap damages rods. Should I bother having my machinist take a look at them?


    Should I bother messing around with the intermediate shaft bearings?
    Change the intermediate bearings, cheap insurance.

    Replace the rod and main bearings if the crank is smooth, then plastiguage, good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    What is the tightest skirt clearance that you can get away with on a Venolia?
    .005" is the smallest, thats what I am running, and there not that noisey,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

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  7. #7
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    .005" is the smallest, thats what I am running, and there not that noisey,
    How noisy is "not that noisy"?

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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    How noisy is "not that noisy"?
    Compared to the JE's I ran before, I would say 10% louder. I have heard other cars with Ven's and they were alot louder.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    ouch.. only on cold startup or all day long?

    JT
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  10. #10
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanman²'s Avatar
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    ouch.. only on cold startup or all day long?
    Start up loud, then they get pretty quiet. I was expecting alot more and once warm, very liveable.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  11. #11
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    I'm running JE's in our race saturn and they are LOUD on startup when cold. Sounds like an old mercedes diesel. Then it gradually gets quieter as the engine warms up. As soon as coolant temp hits 180º, no noise at all.

  12. #12
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowSL2 View Post
    I'm running JE's in our race saturn and they are LOUD on startup when cold. Sounds like an old mercedes diesel. Then it gradually gets quieter as the engine warms up. As soon as coolant temp hits 180º, no noise at all.
    Wonder what the clearances are set at? I found my old JE's just as quiet as cast, even when its freezing outside,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  13. #13
    boostaholic
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Am I going to have to worry about clearences with this thing or am I going to have my machinist put the pistons on the rods, and bore out the cylinders. I was going to put the motor back together.

  14. #14
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    .005" is the smallest, thats what I am running, and there not that noisey,
    I'm thinking of using .004" this time. What bad thing is going to happen if I do? The .005" is the tightest "recommended" clearance, but don't they engineer some insurance into their recommendations for folks that can't read a micrometer?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][FONT=Comic Sans MS]'91 Shadow convertible 2.5 auto, three core RP IC, S60/.48 stg 1, ported two-piece intake/52mm TB, Menegon +1 swirl, 88 turbo cam, Venolias, Crower rods, TU deep sump pan, ported exhaust, 3" from SV to TP, Hughes TC, Peloquin diff, DSS L5 driveshafts, Shelgame cal, Koni struts/shocks. [/FONT]

  15. #15
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    There was this post for example (though I haven't verified this personaly):

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "On this subject, my Venolias for my 2.5L came with specs of .005"-.007" from the bottom of the skirt. Even after it warms up, it still has piston slap. I am a machinist & the bore checked .005" on the nuts larger than the skirt. All 4 pistons checked within .0001" of each other. I emailed venolia about this problem & they sent back new clearance specs of .002"-.003" (from the bottom of the skirt) for synthetic oil, .003"-.004" for conventional oil. So I'm building another block for the new clearances. Just a FYI. Other than the noise, the venolias are fine."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][FONT=Comic Sans MS]'91 Shadow convertible 2.5 auto, three core RP IC, S60/.48 stg 1, ported two-piece intake/52mm TB, Menegon +1 swirl, 88 turbo cam, Venolias, Crower rods, TU deep sump pan, ported exhaust, 3" from SV to TP, Hughes TC, Peloquin diff, DSS L5 driveshafts, Shelgame cal, Koni struts/shocks. [/FONT]

  16. #16
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanman²'s Avatar
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'm thinking of using .004" this time. What bad thing is going to happen if I do? The .005" is the tightest "recommended" clearance, but don't they engineer some insurance into their recommendations for folks that can't read a micrometer?
    Not sure, the note I got in the box from Venolia recommend .005 to .007" or more, I can't remember the max dimension. Told the machine shop that I wanted .005 and so far, so good. Unless you don't let it warm up fully, I can't see .001" causing an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    There was this post for example (though I haven't verified this personaly):

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "On this subject, my Venolias for my 2.5L came with specs of .005"-.007" from the bottom of the skirt. Even after it warms up, it still has piston slap. I am a machinist & the bore checked .005" on the nuts larger than the skirt. All 4 pistons checked within .0001" of each other. I emailed venolia about this problem & they sent back new clearance specs of .002"-.003" (from the bottom of the skirt) for synthetic oil, .003"-.004" for conventional oil. So I'm building another block for the new clearances. Just a FYI. Other than the noise, the venolias are fine."

    Some people don't know how to set clearances, thats all I can say. The note they put in the box tells you where to measure and I believe its different from what you just said above.

    I also put some in a 2.2 I had built, set at .005 and quiet also.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  17. #17
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Two questions: radiator flushing and engine rebuilding.

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'm thinking of using .004" this time. What bad thing is going to happen if I do? The .005" is the tightest "recommended" clearance, but don't they engineer some insurance into their recommendations for folks that can't read a micrometer?
    Too tight and you have potential to seize the engine as it's warming up. As the forged pistons expand more than a cast and more quickly than the cylinder walls you have potential that the .004" clearance you had turns into .000" and you're having a nasty time.

    Chances that this are going to happen? Not very good... but I'd just deal with the noisy start up for a bit. The wiseco pistons that just showed up here call for a .003" piston to wall clearance because they use a slightly different alloy. The wisecos use some silicon in the forging to allow for less expansion.

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