A true S60 roller cam-now available-regrind or new billet!

[John B]

When the engine warms up does lash decrease or increase? IOW if I set the hydraulic adjusters to .001" clearance cold, will it become less or more at operating temp?

[moparzrule]

You're really on a topic that I find very interesting. Typically for maximum performance you want hydraulic lifters at zero lash or even .002 loose. It looks like that's about where you had your setup when you first installed the cam. I'm assuming if you didn't spit a rocker at 6500 RPM that you ran the engine to 6500 RPM. I'm curious if you got to run the car long enough to get a feel for how perky it was at high RPM. Now that you are giong to bleed down the lifters and add a shim to preload the valvetrain I am curious as to how it feels at high RPM now. Please report back if it feels any less perky with the additional preload as that is the normal tendancy with more preload. This is something I have been wanting to experiment with for a while now and here you are doing it for me!! For what it's worth I have been running my Super 60 slider cam now for 11 years and it's still not worn out.
THANKS!!
Randy

Hmm, I will let you know!

[turbovanman²]

For what it's worth I have been running my Super 60 slider cam now for 11 years and it's still not worn out.
THANKS!!
Randy

You'd be up there as one of the very few,

[turbovanman²]

When the engine warms up does lash decrease or increase? IOW if I set the hydraulic adjusters to .001" clearance cold, will it become less or more at operating temp?

As everything heats up, the lash gets smaller. Thats why on adjustable valvetrain, you set the exhaust larger due to the heat expansion of the hotter valve.

[moparzrule]

As everything heats up, the lash gets smaller. Thats why on adjustable valvetrain, you set the exhaust larger due to the heat expansion of the hotter valve.

I concur with that. I used to have a 273 with a solid cam, and my cummins ram also I had to adjust valves on. Intakes were .010 and exhausts were .020.

[John B]

My confusion is about the aluminum head. I know a forged valve expands (lengthens) more than a cast iron head, but it seems like an aluminum head would "grow" more than the valves and increase clearance.

[turbovanman²]

My confusion is about the aluminum head. I know a forged valve expands (lengthens) more than a cast iron head, but it seems like an aluminum head would "grow" more than the valves and increase clearance.

Well the valves grow longer so they will close up the gap. The head will also grow, closing up the gap. Thats why hydraulic lifters rock, they take up clearance and never need adjusting,

[moparzrule]

I squished the lifters in the vice, put them back in with 2 shims and it STILL held the valves open. Looks like 1 shim is it for these cams with the stock lifters, so the PT's should be able to be used with 3 shims.

[moparzrule]

OK installed the cam today. First impression, it's a decent cam. But, no extensive tuning done yet I have to tweak the calibration for it and also the cam is installed straight up right now so I haven't touched cam timing yet either.
This is installed in a ported +1mm G headed 2.2L, with a large hybrid turbo at 18 PSI currently.

Slight loss in low end power, most noticeable from idle-2000 RPM, not bad, just noticeable. Lost 2'' vacuum at idle, not bad. Does not really lope at all, still has pretty smooth idle. At 4000 RPM on the highway the engine seems smoother, it's liking the higher rev's. Not extensive high RPM testing only took it to 6500 RPM for now. Lost about 200 RPM turbo spoolup, again not bad actually less than expected.

I have new news. Found out I was actually running with the cam 1 tooth advanced! I couldn't figure out why at 6700 the engine was dying when with the stock cam the engine pulled to 7000! LOL, well I figured it out!
Soooo, with the cam properly setup I now have 14-15'' of vacuum at idle, but it still seems pretty smooth not much lope at all. Spoolup was decreased, I now don't have full boost until 4500 RPM (stock cam is 4000 RPM full boost), but when I got to 7000 RPM the engine was misfiring and carrying on. This may be in the cal, but honestly I really liked the more lower RPM power the stock cam gave because my setup was built to rev and it still does that OK with the stock cam.
I just want to point out right now that this is an unfair test for this cam. I'm running a G headed 2.2, and with this super low compression (7.4:1) I don't think this cam will be compatable. Also, with the huge plenum/short runner intake I have, the power band from idle-3500 is complete crap, nothing. It wasn't that great with the stock cam, but tolerable.
My advice, this cam will shine in a high flowing 2.5L setup. I honestly wish I would have had this cam when I was running the 2.5L because that setup could have used less low end and more top end for sure. But, a stock compression 2.2/swirl head this cam may still be OK. But it's not for me, or my setup.
Another thought is perhaps trying this cam 4 degree's advanced, wondering if this cam was indeed setup for square tooth and I have it on the round. Since one tooth is 9 degrees, potentially when I had it 1 tooth advanced it may have only been 5 degree's advanced. Now that I backed it off the tooth it's now 4 degree's retarded. I dunno, thats all speculation. But, I really need the stock cam in my setup so I've decided just to switch back. With the low compression I have, a compression test yields 130 across the board on a fresh engine (would be 150+ with a swirl head) with the stock cam. With this cam, I was only pushing 120 PSI compression with the cam 1 tooth advanced, so it was probably less than that even with it set correctly now. I suspect this is the largest part for the misfiring at high RPM's.

[sdac guy]

.... Another thought is perhaps trying this cam 4 degree's advanced, wondering if this cam was indeed setup for square tooth and I have it on the round.

The slider S60 cam as sold by MP was never meant to be installed straight up on either sprocket. It must be centerlined to work as designed. According to the MP catalog, the correct centerline for the MP S60 is 112*. Neither the square nor round tooth sprocket will get you to that centerline without the use of offset cam keys.

However, if you measure the centerline of your install and it is only off by a couple of degrees, don't bother to go further. As 2 degrees either way will most likely not be noticeable either in driveability or performance.


Barry

[John B]

Are you certain you got your lash adjuster issue sorted out?

[turbovanman²]

If nobody gets around to it by them, Terry Ryan aka Gasketmaster has one, he's going to dyno his van with the stocker and then put the S60 in. Probably be a couple months he said.

Thanks for the info Barry,

[moparzrule]

Are you certain you got your lash adjuster issue sorted out?

There was nothing to sort. 2 shims held the valves open even after squishing the lifters down, as soon as I cranked over the engine when oil pressure got to the lifter it lifted them back up. I had no choice but to run 1 shim, it seemed to be fine though. Like I said it didn't spit any rockers out or anything.

[cody88csxt]

simon i need to know whats going on with my cam before monday. i spent forty to ship it to you and if you arent going to get i need to know before monday so i can pay another 50 to have it sent back to me or give me your other address to send it to before i get screwed and its stuck in canada.

[Sloride]

So, I finally got around to installing my cam....


I busted out the degree wheel and dial indicator, Installed on a 111 centerline.
(I got really lucky, i eyeballed it to 116 then only had to back off 2 ticks on my adjustable sprocket)

i gotta say..... Wowzers!!

i still have 21 in vac (about the same as with the stocker)
it seems as if hell wants to break loose @ 5000 and im currently only running 10psi...

im using the 061 springs, w/ pt lifters on a big valve 782 head ( 200ish cfm @500)

2.5 litre
ported 2 peice intake
ported exaust mani (tu header looking pretty sitting on the floor....)
3 in exaust 3"swingvalve
---- a 57 trim in stock housing w/ clipped wheel in .63------ (yes i know )

Aluminum flywheel. 6 puck clutch Obx lsd

it sounds the same as the stock cam did.
i didn't notice any more low end slugishness

[moparzrule]

What are you using for shims?
Did you get a new billet cam?

[moparzrule]

I'll also update on my situation. Turns out that my intake guides were worn out bad, about .022'' clearance! This is why I was having the high RPM misfire, the valve was not getting sealed back up because it was wobbling around.
So I got the guides replaced, next thing I know my rod bearings crapped out. Ain't life grand.

[Sloride]

ouch.

yeah its a new billet and the washers for the pt lifters were from the pope. i had to create a solid lash adjuster (actually got it to the exact height of a normal adjuster 51.9 mm.... i have 7 more worn out adjusters.... perhaps i should manufacture some-more)

[John B]

hydraulic cams don't have clearance ramps to gradually take up lash like solid lifter cams. I would be concerned that the hard lifters will wear out your cam prematurely.

[Sloride]

hydraulic cams don't have clearance ramps to gradually take up lash like solid lifter cams. I would be concerned that the hard lifters will wear out your cam prematurely.

True say.

(i only made the solid lifter for centerlining.)