NO BS: Welded Diff, fact vs. fiction

[8valves]

Alright- first and foremost. I don't want to hear "it shouldn't be used for on the street, it's dangerous, etc etc" from someone who has never run one. Sorry, theory tends to not work here in my eyes.

I am highly considering welding my diff on my daily driver, yes, daily driver vehicle for the utmost traction when for once I can't save enough due to lack of employment for too long for the "right parts."

I have TWO seperate people right now that have personally run them in their daily driven vehicles, one in a FWD Talon TSi pushing some decent power (340 whp), and one Honda that does it as well (520 whp). According to them you just need to be careful on tight corners, parking, etc. Normal driving, highway curves, etc... no worries. Neither of them have broken anything in over a year and a half besides weak axles, and both say they'd do it again in a heartbeat. These cars also had NO power steering on a power rack, just like I do.

If you have personal experience in a FWD welded diff car with street tires, not trying to turn on big slicks etc, please speak up. I know this isn't the optimal setup, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Aaron Miller

[GLHS592]

Have you driven either of those cars? It sounds to me like it would cause more worry than it's worth. I know I'd be worrying about breaking something all the time. Also, why the concern for traction right now? I'd personally save up the money to solve this problem. You have sold some parts lately.

[mrboost]

Well, I could tell ya, but instead, c'mon over and you can take the Daytona for a spin. It has street tires on it, and then if you like you can try the slicks, they're just in the basement. My car is rack and pinion (obviously) and doesn't have power steering like the ones you're comparing to.

I do drive it short distances on the radials, but with the slicks, FORGET IT!

If you're thinking about doing this to your car that you drive regularly, don't do it until you've driven mine or someone else's. One of the biggest problems is that on radial tires if you do break traction the steering wheel is really hard to hold on to, and of course there is always the 3-4 cuts to get it in the driveway. I might be spoiled by driving my Jeep everyday, but this isn't something I'd want to deal with on a day to day basis. Hooks like a mofo though!

Alright- first and foremost. I don't want to hear "it shouldn't be used for on the street, it's dangerous, etc etc" from someone who has never run one. Sorry, theory tends to not work here in my eyes.

I am highly considering welding my diff on my daily driver, yes, daily driver vehicle for the utmost traction when for once I can't save enough due to lack of employment for too long for the "right parts."

I have TWO seperate people right now that have personally run them in their daily driven vehicles, one in a FWD Talon TSi pushing some decent power (340 whp), and one Honda that does it as well (520 whp). According to them you just need to be careful on tight corners, parking, etc. Normal driving, highway curves, etc... no worries. Neither of them have broken anything in over a year and a half besides weak axles, and both say they'd do it again in a heartbeat. These cars also had NO power steering on a power rack, just like I do.

If you have personal experience in a FWD welded diff car with street tires, not trying to turn on big slicks etc, please speak up. I know this isn't the optimal setup, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Aaron Miller

[altered7151]

I was good friends with a guy that had a welded diff in his honda, he was pushing a little over 300 at the wheels. He drove his car on the street regularly, and although you had to pay attention quite a bit more, its definitally doable. He would just pay attention to parking lots and park in areas where he wouldn't have to make tight turns, and he quite using drive-thrus, but hey we could all use the exercise. You'll burn through tires pretty good though, that thing would howl like a dirty whore on tight freeway on ramps. Pulled like a raped ape on the straights though. It was a huge pain to move around in the shop by pushing it though, it was easier to just jack up the front end and move it on the floor jack. He said he would do it again though it he had to do it all over.

[turbojerk]

If you're really that concerned about traction, spend the money on the LSD. Welding the diff may work, but it will also make the car unreliable and aggravating for everyday driving....

[8valves]

If you're really that concerned about traction, spend the money on the LSD. Welding the diff may work, but it will also make the car unreliable and aggravating for everyday driving....

This is what I'm not looking to hear, sorry. If i had the cash I'd buy an LSD, but it's not a viable option right now. This particularly upsets me because for once I have to skimp out on my car, and that's just not my style.

And I don't understand why there is this concencus that something will break when you have a welded diff... most surely the tires will slip/scrub before the difference in turning speed with over torque the axles.

Kevin, nope, haven't driven either of them. I've only driven a couple of LSD cars that were tightened up pretty good, and on tight corners would shudder a bit or squeel a little.

To me streetable is as long as it'll idle without overheating, stop, have registration and insurance, and it won't kill me. The latter is the only one I'm concerned about when it comes to this.

Paul- I may have to take you up on that offer. It'll give me a reason to drop off your radiator as well. Also, the DSM and the Honda both did NOT have PS working on their vehicles, and were still going through a power rack... same thing I do right now.

You know how I am, and you know that a streetable race car is my idea of a perfect daily driver. I just think this is the next step is not having any qualms about lining up with the F body boys and Mustang guys down here at school. I've got to defend my title this spring, and the smack talking has already begun.

So we've got one other Honda guy that did it and said the same thing my guys said, if they had the choice they'd do it again. Paul said he has driven it for short jaunts, but probably wouldn't want to deal with it all the time. Anyone else have some real world experience?

Thanks for your input, sorry if it sounds like I'm set in my ways... but maybe I am. I think this is a real alternative for those that aren't scared to use a little muscle and a little common sense while driving. As long as it isn't absolutely I'm-scared-for-my-life horrible, I'm game.

Aaron Miller

[Frank]

Does it make a difference if you have PS or not? I wonder what the effects are...


Frank

[GLHS592]

Let me tell you something. Even with a welded diff/limited slip, you aren't going to get much traction on the street. Multiply that by 5 if you are making any kind of power. I have an Alabama Man diff. insert. When I hammer on the car at 45 mph in 3rd gear, all I do is spin. That's on just 15-16 psi of boost.

[Mirage]

I have a welded diff in my Honda LSR car. I can only say that it takes the fun out of life. Imagine having to make a 3 point turn just to go through a drive-thru, and breaking a sweat doing it. Struggling with your car is not cool nor fun. If you are running a P/S rack without power steering then it's only worse. I consider my Honda to be undrivable on the street now. I can tough it out, I just dont WANT to drive it anymore.

I have 3 words for you:

DON'T
DO
IT

john

[tryingbe]

I bet it would suck big time when you're turning and stopping or stopping on an un-even road.

And I hope you don't have to drive in the rain.

[Marcus86GLHS]

"...Even with a welded diff/limited slip, you aren't going to get much traction on the street. ..."

exactly what i was thinking.

in my experience, tires make more of a difference in traction/60-foot times than the differential with the TD's.

[8valves]

I'm surprised there is this much negative feedback going on. I mean, I guess I'm not, because it's a general concencus that it's a race only type deal... but that's my kind of style.

I was getting the 370 whp to hook if I was very gragdual into the throttle and feathered it once into it in third. 4th would hold without too much drama. This is on the Azenis ST115's that you're getting Kevin. The car now has 225/50/15 BFG DR's for everyday driving.

We can't just keep putting our heads in the sand over "we can't get traction." There are ways to do it, it just requires taking steps that are out of the ordinary, away from the comfort zone of modifying our cars, if you will.

If guys are getting 500 and 600 or even more wheel cars to hook a gear or two on the street then why can't we? I'd love to say "It's because we make more torque", but when some of the good Honda guys are making 400-500 tq then it's possible for us.

Want to go really extreme? M&H and MT both make a 235/60/15 Drag Radial. For those doing math that is over 26" in diameter, for a street drag radial. Mark's hatchback is making 363 whp and 280 wtq and it hooks FIRST GEAR, with a GT30R DBB turbo coming on HARD... and this is on an OPEN DIFF. Does it look silly with baloon tires? Yeah, but he doesn't care. Would a car be hard to drive with a welded diff, yeah, but to me it might be worth it. I've yet to decide.

Please keep those experiences coming, I'm actually open to people's opinions/suggestions as it makes me think it through really well. Thanks.

Aaron Miller

[mock_glh]

You don't want to know what the car will do if one axle breaks when you're racing. You might swerve off into the guard rail (or side of the road) or into the car you're racing. (I don't suppose you have billet axles that won't break.) One wheel burnouts can be reduced or eliminated by adjusting the left to right balance of the drive wheels. I have a Quaife in my Omni and it made no difference in my drag strip times after doing this.

[8valves]

I bet it would suck big time when you're turning and stopping or stopping on an un-even road.

And I hope you don't have to drive in the rain.

Why a problem in teh rain? If you think about it, you have MORE traction at all times in comparison. Same with snow driving, although this car doesn't see the snow. Obviously I'll need to be very concious of when the car starts to loose traction, or push, etc, step in the clutch and calmly reign her in... and that's if it gets out of shape that much.

I think people need to realize that the only function that will be affected is tight corner turning, in which I'll just have to muscle it out. That is, if I do it.

Aaron Miller

[8valves]

You don't want to know what the car will do if one axle breaks when you're racing. You might swerve off into the guard rail (or side of the road) or into the car you're racing. (I don't suppose you have billet axles that won't break.) One wheel burnouts can be reduced or eliminated by adjusting the left to right balance of the drive wheels. I have a Quaife in my Omni and it made no difference in my drag strip times after doing this.

I respect your opinion Boyd, and I fully understand the suspension setup and weighting to hook the primary drive wheel. However on the street it's much easier to lose traction, and as soon as the one wheel starts to slip, as I'm sure you know, all power will be transferred to that wheel... bye bye acceleration.

Now, when you break an axle you should already be on the clutch and out of the gas. Once this is accomplished there shouldn't be any pulling, as far as I can figure. There of course will be the initial pull as power just goes one way, but to me won't that be the same as the open diff spin game? My car tries to change lanes when it starts to let go! Boyd, have you ran a welded diff before?

Aaron Miller

[turbovanman²]

Sorry, I don't have experience but based on reading etc and hearing about the steering wheel rip out of you hand. If driving in the rain, its the same as losing traction, the it pull you side to side as the tires grip and unload, I can't imagine that would be very safe, even on damp roads.
Also, if your running DR's, you will have a one week lifespan,
Have to add, I know about the tire wear as when I work on 4x4's and engage it, drive around the parking lot, I can't get into my bay and I leave blackies trying to do a sharp turn.

[jckrieger]

Also, if your running DR's, you will have a one week lifespan,

Turbovanman is right, welding the diff will make your tires wear 1000% faster. Both of my friends welded their rear differentials in their Rangers and both of them regret it for a daily driver... and this is RWD we're talking about. Both of my friends have a dark area going into the driveway where the tires are laying down the rubber as they drive in and out of the driveway. Also, the trucks will hop when trying to make even a soft u-turn. I remember watching the SMP guys trying to turn their Charger around at SDAC 12 or 13 with the welded front diff. I think it took 10 tries to get the car straight at the starting line. As stated before, you might be ok with a welded diff until you get sticky tires, but once you get tires you'll be in for some trouble.

[Mirage]

Also, keep in mind that when the wheel is turned hard (assuming you could actually do it), the engine wants to stall since you are going to have to do a 1 wheel burn out just to move forward at all. When you let off the pressure, the steering wheel wants to RIP out of your hand and do 1-2 complete turns. I can not overstate the forces required to drive like this. It gets very old, very very fast.

Without driving one, you simply can't believe what it's like. You have to experience it, hopefully before you do it to your car.

Also, it wears out your clutch real fast.

[tryingbe]

Why a problem in teh rain? If you think about it, you have MORE traction at all times in comparison. Same with snow driving, although this car doesn't see the snow. Obviously I'll need to be very concious of when the car starts to loose traction, or push, etc, step in the clutch and calmly reign her in... and that's if it gets out of shape that much.

I'm sure you have no problem ACCELERATING in the rain.

It's the slowing stopping, turning, handling part in the rain. Think about it, you're only going to have one front wheel for traction at all time unless you are going absoutely straight and it is a completely even road. *good luck finding that on public street*

Rubber skipping and slidding does NOT equal to traction. Not when you want to stop your car nor take that corner.

[altered7151]

Well you could always just try find a diff from a bad or spare tranny and try it. Then if it doesn't work put the other diff in. There's no real way to know if its for you unless you try it yourself. Some people are going to tell you they like it, some people are going to tell you it sucks. It all in the preference and how much you are willing to give up in comfort for performance. It will probably also make more of a difference in different cars, you will probably notice it alot more in a fully trimmed daytona then in a lightened L-body.