SRT-4 Caliber Review video

[Reaper1]

I think the tail is wagging the dog here. It used to be in the 60's that a Valiant was a "small car" and the Bug was a "compact car". Then in the '70's we saw the introduction of the Civic(then CVCC IIRC) and THAT was considered a compact car. That trend continued all the way through the '80's and mid '90's. Then all of a sudden the car companies decided that the American market no longer needed a "compact car". ALL of them started to get larger and heavier(The last true compact car that Dodge offered was the Colt, the Omni before that). I saw a gragh that was presented to a group of people by the president of SAE. It showed the weight of cars vs. power. IIRC 1980 or so marked the era of the lightest average vehicles(and also the lowest power). Since that time cars have gotten substantially heavier and more powerful. Dodge currently does NOT offer a "compact car". Period. I don't care what magazines say.

A Yaris is a compact car. A SMART car is a compact car. A Metro is a compact car. Simply put the Caliber is NOT a compact car, no matter how you cut it. It is a midsize car, on the verge of full size car weight! Cars now weigh as much, and often times MORE than cars from the '60's and 70's which are usually considered "heavy". The Gen 2 Neon IMHO is NOT a compact car either...it too is a midsize car. When did I ever bring up the Eclipse? Especially the new one!? I don't consider that car a compact, and never have!

We are being "told" by the auto industry and the magazines that "such and such car" is a compact, and instead of questioning it, the general public just ignorantly nods their heads "yes" and blindly accepts it as fact. The TRUTH is that most cars that are "labled" a compact are a midsize car! I think it's sad and retarded that imported cars are even changed dimensionally for the American market alone! We get wider seats that ANY other country on the planet!! Why?! I think that's a load of CRAP! If your @ss is too big to fit in a car, it isn't the car's or the manufacturer's fault!!! You need to loose some friggin wieght! Perfectly fine cars are redesigend becuase of this. The Aerial Atom is the perfect example! We don't get the REAL one here! We get a redeisgned one that has a wider overall frame so the wide seats for fat @sses can fit in it..then to make up for the added weight of the fat @ss driver and passenger they had to stick a different engine in it! What a load of CRAP! And the public just simles and accepts it and thinks nothing of it, or that it makes us even that much more special....COME ON!!! Open your friggin eyes!!

I know that it probably won't happen, but the general public needs to start questioning the antics of the auto industry. If a car was built with the "quality" it is built with today in the late '80's it would have gotten torn to shreds for being cheap, plasticy, and boring! Most reviews now are talking about how good they are...I simply dissagree! They are good compared to WHAT?! The Barbie Corvette at Toys-R-Us? Even cars that I consider better built than the Caliber are cheap to me! Maybe I'm stuck in the past, or fixed in my ways, but I honestly can't see how a huge chunk of hard plastic that fils the cabin with some boring @ss monotonous color that you can still see the mold lines on can be considered "quality"!? It looks like somebody took the obolisk from 2001 and shoved it in the car! They are put together like Snap-Tite models. The carpet is thinner than stuff you can get for doll houses! EVERYTHING is designed to wear out! They WANT you to HAVE to replace things in the car so they can make money off of it even after it is paid for! This is BS...and the GP lets it happen, accpets it, and then they are brainwashed into liking it and thinking it is "quality"! No way. I don't buy that for a second, and I really wish that people would open their eyes and do the same!

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.....

[t3rse]

you can't argue with a wall

why don't you get some info that doesn't come from chryco: the s3 nsrt makes more than 300 I can assure you.

[sherm1123]

you can't argue with a wall

why don't you get some info that doesn't come from chryco: the s3 nsrt makes more than 300 I can assure you.

Okay, name your sources, I just figured that the company that is selling the kit would have the most accurate information on the Stage kits. If you think MOPAR Performances info on their kits is wrong, show me why and where I can find better info. Should I check with GM?

Do you have answers for any of the other questions I asked?

[sherm1123]

I think the tail is wagging the dog here. It used to be in the 60's that a Valiant was a "small car" and the Bug was a "compact car". Then in the '70's we saw the introduction of the Civic(then CVCC IIRC) and THAT was considered a compact car. That trend continued all the way through the '80's and mid '90's. Then all of a sudden the car companies decided that the American market no longer needed a "compact car". ALL of them started to get larger and heavier(The last true compact car that Dodge offered was the Colt, the Omni before that). I saw a gragh that was presented to a group of people by the president of SAE. It showed the weight of cars vs. power. IIRC 1980 or so marked the era of the lightest average vehicles(and also the lowest power). Since that time cars have gotten substantially heavier and more powerful. Dodge currently does NOT offer a "compact car". Period. I don't care what magazines say.

A Yaris is a compact car. A SMART car is a compact car. A Metro is a compact car. Simply put the Caliber is NOT a compact car, no matter how you cut it. It is a midsize car, on the verge of full size car weight! Cars now weigh as much, and often times MORE than cars from the '60's and 70's which are usually considered "heavy". The Gen 2 Neon IMHO is NOT a compact car either...it too is a midsize car. When did I ever bring up the Eclipse? Especially the new one!? I don't consider that car a compact, and never have!

We are being "told" by the auto industry and the magazines that "such and such car" is a compact, and instead of questioning it, the general public just ignorantly nods their heads "yes" and blindly accepts it as fact. The TRUTH is that most cars that are "labled" a compact are a midsize car! I think it's sad and retarded that imported cars are even changed dimensionally for the American market alone! We get wider seats that ANY other country on the planet!! Why?! I think that's a load of CRAP! If your @ss is too big to fit in a car, it isn't the car's or the manufacturer's fault!!! You need to loose some friggin wieght! Perfectly fine cars are redesigend becuase of this. The Aerial Atom is the perfect example! We don't get the REAL one here! We get a redeisgned one that has a wider overall frame so the wide seats for fat @sses can fit in it..then to make up for the added weight of the fat @ss driver and passenger they had to stick a different engine in it! What a load of CRAP! And the public just simles and accepts it and thinks nothing of it, or that it makes us even that much more special....COME ON!!! Open your friggin eyes!!

I know that it probably won't happen, but the general public needs to start questioning the antics of the auto industry. If a car was built with the "quality" it is built with today in the late '80's it would have gotten torn to shreds for being cheap, plasticy, and boring! Most reviews now are talking about how good they are...I simply dissagree! They are good compared to WHAT?! The Barbie Corvette at Toys-R-Us? Even cars that I consider better built than the Caliber are cheap to me! Maybe I'm stuck in the past, or fixed in my ways, but I honestly can't see how a huge chunk of hard plastic that fils the cabin with some boring @ss monotonous color that you can still see the mold lines on can be considered "quality"!? It looks like somebody took the obolisk from 2001 and shoved it in the car! They are put together like Snap-Tite models. The carpet is thinner than stuff you can get for doll houses! EVERYTHING is designed to wear out! They WANT you to HAVE to replace things in the car so they can make money off of it even after it is paid for! This is BS...and the GP lets it happen, accpets it, and then they are brainwashed into liking it and thinking it is "quality"! No way. I don't buy that for a second, and I really wish that people would open their eyes and do the same!

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.....

I certainly understand your argument and agree with it to a certain extent. I'm not suggesting what the automobile industry should label a car, I am just stating how they HAVE labeled cars, including the Caliber. The fact that you don't agree with the auto industry as a whole, does not change the current classification system in which the Caliber is classified as a compact car. Most of the examples you gave are classified as sub-compacts I believe...

If we are taking --- surveys, I'd say mine is average size.

[Aries_Turbo]

my buddies NSRT stage 3 makes 360+ at the wheels on HOM and with just a larger intercooler and exhaust.

Brian

[sherm1123]

my buddies NSRT stage 3 makes 360+ at the wheels on HOM and with just a larger intercooler and exhaust.

Brian

Very cool! So how much does he have in upgrades? $6200 for the Stage 3 and $2000 for exhaust and intercooler?

[Aries_Turbo]

he bought the car for 10.5K with it all done.

i see your sarcasm though.... you dont have to buy stage 1,2 and 3 to get stage 3, you just buy stage 3. it used to be 3600$ last i looked.

i dont know what a perrin 3" runs and an intercooler. you can do it with a stock intercooler though. if you are smarter than the average SRT guy that will pay for expensive parts, you just take them two stock SRT intercoolers and have the end tanks combined into one. thats as good or better than the $$$ aftermarket ones and waaaaay cheaper. wherever there are car guys, there is a few guys that have a tig welder and like to help.

you say that the caliber is so much cheaper than a NSRT for power upgrades but i disagree. SCT flash of a stock SRT ecu to make it a stage 3 computer, homemade manifold and large turbo setup and the intercooler i described above and a 3" exhaust and some dyno time to dial in any differences that the non SRT turbofold may bring and youd make more power than any stage package. if you have the ability to make things, making power is cheap.

Brian

[contraption22]

Very cool! So how much does he have in upgrades? $6200 for the Stage 3 and $2000 for exhaust and intercooler?

Where the heck did you get those numbers from? lol.

[sherm1123]

Where the heck did you get those numbers from? lol.

They were questions, as in how much did he spend, $2000?

The $6200 comes from the advertised cost of Stage 1 through 3 from Mopar Performance website. I know that most good 3" TBE's will run close to $1000 and I have no idea what intercooler your friend has, so I just guessed at $1000 for that, thus my question as to how much he has spent.

I agree that making the parts yourself and tuning yourself is much cheaper than buying the Stage kits from MOPAR, but you stated that he had Stage 3 so I assumed he had bought it.

[contraption22]

The $6200 comes from the advertised cost of Stage 1 through 3 from Mopar Performance website. I know that most good 3" TBE's will run close to $1000 and I have no idea what intercooler your friend has, so I just guessed at $1000 for that, thus my question as to how much he has spent.

Stage 3 is only $3600 MSRP. You know you don't need to buy Stage 1 or 2 to get stage 3, right?

[sherm1123]

Stage 3 is only $3600 MSRP. You know you don't need to buy Stage 1 or 2 to get stage 3, right?

Where are you seeing that MSRP is $3600? I checked 3 different sites and they are all showing MSRP as $4199? Yes I am aware that the kits can be bought separately.

[contraption22]

Where are you seeing that MSRP is $3600? I checked 3 different sites and they are all showing MSRP as $4199? Yes I am aware that the kits can be bought separately.

Sorry, I thought that was MSRP. Turns out it's just the common going price.

[t3rse]

Okay, name your sources, I just figured that the company that is selling the kit would have the most accurate information on the Stage kits. If you think MOPAR Performances info on their kits is wrong, show me why and where I can find better info. Should I check with GM?

Do you have answers for any of the other questions I asked?

Sport Compact Car Volume 16 Issue 11: Chyrco's test mule made 369whp and 383ftlbs

That guy mentioned earlier with the 12 on stock mechanicals didn't need a turbo wheel upgrade or A HOGGED OUT PLASTIC INTAKE MANIFOLD to run 12s. Stock mechanicals does not include upgraded compressors. All it takes to make a NSRT run 12s is a gate clamp, a hack tune job, and slicks. Hell, the red shed uses nitrous. There are NSRTs on stock turbos running 11s on spray....

either way, 4k for 380hp is cheaper than what you'll pay Darrel to achieve the same goals in the caliber.

[sherm1123]

Sport Compact Car Volume 16 Issue 11: Chyrco's test mule made 369whp and 383ftlbs

That guy mentioned earlier with the 12 on stock mechanicals didn't need a turbo wheel upgrade or A HOGGED OUT PLASTIC INTAKE MANIFOLD to run 12s. Stock mechanicals does not include upgraded compressors. All it takes to make a NSRT run 12s is a gate clamp, a hack tune job, and slicks. Hell, the red shed uses nitrous. There are NSRTs on stock turbos running 11s on spray....

either way, 4k for 380hp is cheaper than what you'll pay Darrel to achieve the same goals in the caliber.

So are you stating the "test mule" from your article is the typical HP achieved from a Stage 3 kit on the majority of NSRT's even though it is advertised at 300 HP and is not street legal?

I'm not sure who Darrell is, and I'm not paying anyone anything... but if I were going to make changes the Stage 2 kit from Realtune is around $2000 and produces the same HP even at the #'s you are quoting for the Stage 3 kit, oh and still leaves your car street legal and usable as a daily driver.

So if its so easy to get into the 12's in the NSRT, why is the world record 12.65? The stock advertised times I found from your magazine was 14.2 for the NSRT.

Not that I don't believe your friend's claims for HP and 1/4 mile times, but are there any links with time slips and dyno's scanned such as I have shown for the cars and times I've referenced?

[Reaper1]

You're kidding right? You don't know who Darrell is?! Come on! DCR!! Darrell Cox Racing...the people who built "The Red Shed"...the "flagship" for the CSRT world.

Honestly comparing stage numbers is pointless in this case! If you want to be technical the "stage 2" kit that is offered by the aftermarket for the CSRT is more like the "stage 3" kit that was offered by MOPAR. The only reasons that the MOPAR stage 3 was not street legal was becuase it was tuned to use unleaded race fuel and the turbofold counted as modifying the emissions of the car...so therefore it revoked its "street legal" status.

Despite some people's experiences and claims, 14.2 IS about the average 1/4 mile time for a stock NSRT with an ok driver. A better driver could probably get it to go faster. What is so bad about 12.65? That is MID 12's!! if you want to be technical 12.99 IS a 12 second car! So...it is probably VERY possible that most of the 12 second NSRT's are running closer to 12.8, but that's STILL 12's!

[slowbrokedodge]

Alot of these cheap so called performance cars are just that very cheap and that my problem, for 20-25k$ I think people should get more for there money, mabye its just my age but if the interior sucks and is full of plastic that just feels bad, than I know its not the car for me, and thats my main complaint about the caliber in gereral, even dodges more expencive cars IE charger and 300 there plastic dashes just plain suck. So to end my rant, I dont care if the make it out of cheap plastic just make me think its better than what it is.

[Aries_Turbo]

Alot of these cheap so called performance cars are just that very cheap and that my problem, for 20-25k$ I think people should get more for there money, mabye its just my age but if the interior sucks and is full of plastic that just feels bad, than I know its not the car for me, and thats my main complaint about the caliber in gereral, even dodges more expencive cars IE charger and 300 there plastic dashes just plain suck. So to end my rant, I dont care if the make it out of cheap plastic just make me think its better than what it is.

quit reading car and driver. problem solved.

Sherm..... either you are playing dumb or you dont know how to do your homework. i dont know which to believe.

Brian

[slowbrokedodge]

quit reading car and driver. problem solved.

Sherm..... either you are playing dumb or you dont know how to do your homework. i dont know which to believe.

Brian

this had nothing to do with car and driver, all you have to do is go sit in them. (as I have done) and you will soon see what I mean

[sherm1123]

You're kidding right? You don't know who Darrell is?! Come on! DCR!! Darrell Cox Racing...the people who built "The Red Shed"...the "flagship" for the CSRT world.

Honestly comparing stage numbers is pointless in this case! If you want to be technical the "stage 2" kit that is offered by the aftermarket for the CSRT is more like the "stage 3" kit that was offered by MOPAR. The only reasons that the MOPAR stage 3 was not street legal was becuase it was tuned to use unleaded race fuel and the turbofold counted as modifying the emissions of the car...so therefore it revoked its "street legal" status.

Despite some people's experiences and claims, 14.2 IS about the average 1/4 mile time for a stock NSRT with an ok driver. A better driver could probably get it to go faster. What is so bad about 12.65? That is MID 12's!! if you want to be technical 12.99 IS a 12 second car! So...it is probably VERY possible that most of the 12 second NSRT's are running closer to 12.8, but that's STILL 12's!

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with DCR, other than the Red Shed, which as I've said several times is not a typical CSRT and I certainly don't consider it any kind of flagship. I'm more impressed with regular guys, like me and you, who can spend a small amount of money and get considerable HP gains out of their car, whatever that is.

The Stage kits were brought up to try and find out how to "easily" turn a NSRT into a 12 second car that has been repeately mentioned here. I was just wanting to know how and if it was a Stage kit that would do it. If the Realtune kit I referenced is similar to the Stage 3 then it is an even better bargain!

I think 12.65 is amazing! It is a world record! What I don't understand is all the posts saying it is easy to do... If it was easy to do for the average driver/car I would doubt it would be the record. I love the NSRT's and any 12 second car is VERY fast, I just doubt that there are allot of slightly modified NSRT's in the 12's. I doubt that it is easy to do, or cheap for that matter.

[sherm1123]

quit reading car and driver. problem solved.

Sherm..... either you are playing dumb or you dont know how to do your homework. i dont know which to believe.

Brian

I didn't write that post if that is what your comment was about...