BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[Rampage16V]

Man JT you must be getting good at doing those trannies. I still have the case from the parts I gave you last year if you want it let me know

I've also tac welded that race on before

Carnage!
-Walked off bearing race
-Cracked 3rd gear syncro ring
-Worn bearing support plate

Changed Parts:
-different 3rd gear (the one that came out last year)
-different used 3 & 4 syncro rings
-different used bearing support plate
-swapped 1 and 2 syncro rings back-forth, who needs syncro on 1st? LOL
-doubled up sprinsg on sliders

Shift fork pad update:
-New material working MUCH better than old material, see side by side picture
-put work pads back in to get more testing on them

[BadAssPerformance]

JT just watch for cracks on the firewall above the exhaust tunnel with higher rate springs ( you need to find them when they are starting and fix them while they are small ) this is where a full roll cage helps take the flex out of the body.

Where, got pics? It has a 10pt cage...

looks good. you really need wheel spacers to bring those srt rims to the edge of the body. the car makes those 17's look tiny.

Brian

Thansk, adn yes, they do need to be spaced out a bit... or widened to 7.5" would look good too!

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

Man JT you must be getting good at doing those trannies. I still have the case from the parts I gave you last year if you want it let me know

I've also tac welded that race on before

Practice makes perfect, LOL.. oie

Looking at this one, i could use that case BTW, thanks again for those parts, more and more go into this one as time goes on

[Reaper1]

How the crap do you crack a synchro ring!? It looks like it started at a high stress point. It looks more and more like we REALLY need to do some research into doing full face dog conversions. I'm thinking we've found the point at which our stock 20 year old transmissions are raising the white flag. Honestly, for the age of the parts, design, and the fact they are FWD I still find it VERY impressive we can shove that amount of torque through them and only now are we having major issues.

It's been a while since I've been into a 3-plane shift transmission, so what caused the bearing plate wear?

Cracks on the firewall on 87/88 G-bodies are VERY common. Mine has it and it had it even with the stock springs. I've known of at least 2 other '88 G-bodies with the same issue, but both were T-top cars (mine is a solid top). It happens on the firewall just where the transmission tunnel starts, which is usually covered up by the heat shield. I plan to fix it some day and reinforce the front structure of the car, probably with a cage.

[BadAssPerformance]

I think the syncro ring just cracked from abuse.

I think the bearing plate got hammered from the walking off race pushing on the front of the case

Stumbled onto the original swap thread so I merged them into this one

[135sohc]

An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, alot of wear on those fork pads, how long have they been in there?

Agreed with Brian, you need to space the rims out.

My van's firewall has cracked twice, I've seen it on other TM's alot.

[BadAssPerformance]

An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

Part of the reason the CM plate helps on the 555/520 is that it is flat compared to the OE stamped ones. The 568/523 plate is actually ground flat on the one side, and has two more bolts. Every bit helps but not sure if a CM plate would help too much?

Wow, alot of wear on those fork pads, how long have they been in there?

Agreed with Brian, you need to space the rims out.

My van's firewall has cracked twice, I've seen it on other TM's alot.

Thats a lot? have you seen what happens to the plastic ones with a couple missed shifts?

[turbovanman²]

Thats a lot? have you seen what happens to the plastic ones with a couple missed shifts?

Nope, haven't seen a really bad 5 speed yet, except for the main shaft wear.

[135sohc]

The ragged stamping marks from the worn out dies and the wavvy grinding marks where someone took a hand grinder to dress the edge down just adds character right ?

More from a wear standpoint. Even in my very nice condition 523 with all of ~90hp~ abusing it. The rear bearing race still managed to pound an indentation into the steel plate. Enough to add some endplay into the equation.

[BadAssPerformance]

I dont have too many pics handy of messed up ones, but I have seen them in many trans' I've had apart.

The pic with the 568 3-4 pads with chunks missing are the ones that came out of this trans when the original brass ones went in the car. The two 555 fork/pad pics are hard to see but the pads are all squished out

[Aries_Turbo]

i can partially see what simon is saying. there is definitely a groove worn in the bronze and you havent had it in there all that long. how long will it be before that bronze is gone.

on the other hand, a plastic shift fork pad lasts darn near forever if a wildman isnt yanking the ---- out of the gear lever.

the bronze will handle your gorilla tug when you get the timing wrong on the shift or it just is mad at you whereas the plastic will break.

but when shifted smooth and clean, the plastic seems like it will outlast the bronze strictly from a wear/thickness standpoint.

on a racecar that sees some street duty (be honest..... ) with a madman at the helm, the bronze is definitely needed.

for the rest of us, i'd rather have plastic. id really hate to have to tear down a gearbox just to replace those pads when they wear out.

i wonder how polished steel/cast iron/stainless would hold up as a fork pad.

brian

[Reeves]

and I'm starting to learn enough about these things to start trying to design stuff.

Like the equal length header and the scatter shields? LMAO.....sorry.....couldn't let that go untouched...

I think the bearing plate got hammered from the walking off race pushing on the front of the case

I would say even if the race wasn't walking off, that the plate was being hammered. Mine does the same thing and it's CM. It's the pinion gear trying to *unscrew* itself from the ring gear that hammers the plate. This also seems to allow the plate to flex, and then the input shaft bearing is allowed to walk back. Then, next thing you know, your damn input shaft is loose on the preload.

An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

I'm thinking something that won't flex, but hopefully not crack either.

More from a wear standpoint. Even in my very nice condition 523 with all of ~90hp~ abusing it. The rear bearing race still managed to pound an indentation into the steel plate. Enough to add some endplay into the equation.

Right.

[turbovanman²]

Funny Reeves, so are the headers ready yet? How about NOW?

What about making a thicker plate and maybe putting a hardened ring in the plate where the bearing push's up?

[shackwrrr]

I still dont see why people are fretting about the shift fork pads. They have used bronze pads for years with no issue. The slider groove could use some polishing and round off the corners a bit. If they lasted this long in JTs trans where the plastic only lasted a few runs I see them lasting a long time in a daily driver. If you could get some more I would love to try them out. I heeltoe shifting gets pretty fun here in the hills.

[Reeves]

I'd like to have a set! For a 555 of course.

[BadAssPerformance]

i can partially see what simon is saying. there is definitely a groove worn in the bronze and you havent had it in there all that long. how long will it be before that bronze is gone.

on the other hand, a plastic shift fork pad lasts darn near forever if a wildman isnt yanking the ---- out of the gear lever.

Yes, there is a slight groove, BUT its still intact, not smashed up like on emissed shift will do to the plastic ones. The pics I posted of plastic were were out of regular use trans', not my gorilla gear jammin'...

for the rest of us, i'd rather have plastic. id really hate to have to tear down a gearbox just to replace those pads when they wear out.

i wonder how polished steel/cast iron/stainless would hold up as a fork pad.

You think brass will wear out before plastic, then suggest steel? seriously?

Thank you, please come again.

Like the equal length header and the scatter shields? LMAO.....sorry.....couldn't let that go untouched...

LOL... ya got me there man!

The header is still in testing... did anyone see the SS prototype at SDAC-21?

Bronse pads are in testing too... Maybe MiniMopar will chime in (in the fork pad thread) on how they are holding up in his DAILY DRIVER.

I would say even if the race wasn't walking off, that the plate was being hammered. Mine does the same thing and it's CM. It's the pinion gear trying to *unscrew* itself from the ring gear that hammers the plate. This also seems to allow the plate to flex, and then the input shaft bearing is allowed to walk back. Then, next thing you know, your damn input shaft is loose on the preload.

Yeah... I got that going on too... just hopng it lives trhu Monster Mopar, LOL! [/QUOTE]

Funny Reeves, so are the headers ready yet? How about NOW?

What about making a thicker plate and maybe putting a hardened ring in the plate where the bearing push's up?

With Reeves' 4-sped idea, you could box the end of the case with a 1/2" thick plate!

I still dont see why people are fretting about the shift fork pads. They have used bronze pads for years with no issue. The slider groove could use some polishing and round off the corners a bit. If they lasted this long in JTs trans where the plastic only lasted a few runs I see them lasting a long time in a daily driver. If you could get some more I would love to try them out. I heeltoe shifting gets pretty fun here in the hills.

I'd like to have a set! For a 555 of course.

Yeah, still need to write a path for those...

[Aries_Turbo]

You think brass will wear out before plastic, then suggest steel? seriously?

Thank you, please come again.

dont be an a$$, a$$.

my plastic ones look great... as long as i dont go crazy on the shifts. even after many many miles.

i only suggested it cause:

1. thats what the factory did via welding the forks up and machining them....

2. nice hard polished selector ring and nice hard polished shift fork pad thats well lubed and is under considerably less load than the METAL ON METAL of the differential..... im thinking it shouldnt be an issue.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

dont be an a$$, a$$.

my plastic ones look great... as long as i dont go crazy on the shifts. even after many many miles.

and maybe there is no slop in your forks/rods? Did you notice the wear on both the brass and bronze pad is off center? The fork is lose on the rod and tilts, so maybe that smore of the issue.

1. thats what the factory did via welding the forks up and machining them....

That is because it is cheaper to weld/grind than machine a custom part...25 years ago when CNC's were rare. They also did thsi on race cars, not production...

2. nice hard polished selector ring and nice hard polished shift fork pad thats well lubed and is under considerably less load than the METAL ON METAL of the differential..... im thinking it shouldnt be an issue.

Still confused why you would rank steel > plastic > brass/bronze? Do you realize that the latest bronse pads I'm using is hard as steel with better frictional properties? I didin't exactly close my eyes while flipping pages in a catalog and take the first one I saw

[135sohc]

The fork wobbling on the rod isnt good. Ever bit of lost motion adds up and potentially allows for drag causing the extra wear.

[turbovanman²]

Bikes don't use anything on their shift fork pads except metal on metal and no synchro's, I've never had to replace a shift fork yet and I don't use the clutch except to downshift and starting.