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Thread: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

  1. #3041
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    FWIW, 2 step on below "X" MPH works pretty well. I have mine set to 4 mph.
    Not sure if that option is present among all the different engine management in this thread. Are there self-contained units that reference wheel speed?

    Hey JT who keeps track of all the 1/4 mile times, dont forget to update your sig.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  2. #3042
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I was messing with my clutch switch when getting mad at the funny feeling pressure plate on my Duster 2 months ago and found that I had the stupid switch adjusted so it would close the circuit before I fully disengaged the clutch. This meant I had to force the bracket backwards each time I tried to push the clutch all the way in. The switch does not seem very user friendly in terms of being able to adjust AND to slip the clutch slightly. I think we need a switch that activates before it is fully depressed and has large amount of movement after it is first activated. Not sure if that exists. What about our brake switch? I can't say that I tested the minimum movement before the clutch switch closes. I just tried to adjust the switch so that I could get almost to the floor before it started pressing back against my foot because it had hit bottom. I tried testing it a little on the street but didn't really get to feel if my clutch is engaging before the 2 step disengages. That would be ideal.
    you could attach a potentiometer to the pivot area of the clutch arm under the dash so that when the clutch arm rotates around the pivot point, it makes this potentiometer turn, changing the resistance.

    then use a LM324 op amp circuit like the one i designed and tested in this thread http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ighlight=relay to create an adjustable setpoint clutch switch that will trigger a relay at any point along the clutch pedals travel.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  3. #3043
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I was messing with my clutch switch when getting mad at the funny feeling pressure plate on my Duster 2 months ago and found that I had the stupid switch adjusted so it would close the circuit before I fully disengaged the clutch. This meant I had to force the bracket backwards each time I tried to push the clutch all the way in. The switch does not seem very user friendly in terms of being able to adjust AND to slip the clutch slightly. I think we need a switch that activates before it is fully depressed and has large amount of movement after it is first activated. Not sure if that exists. What about our brake switch? I can't say that I tested the minimum movement before the clutch switch closes. I just tried to adjust the switch so that I could get almost to the floor before it started pressing back against my foot because it had hit bottom. I tried testing it a little on the street but didn't really get to feel if my clutch is engaging before the 2 step disengages. That would be ideal.
    I run the clutch switch in series with a button so thinking if the switch was on top instead of bottom I could make it work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    Big CONGRATS on the PB!

    FWIW, 2 step on below "X" MPH works pretty well. I have mine set to 4 mph.
    Thanks! Umm... my 2-step is only through the MSD DIS-2 Plus box, nothing fancy like that

    Quote Originally Posted by 86Shelby View Post
    Not really, unless it was bearings whining, which then they likely wouldn't have much life left. I've set a few transmissions with the input shaft preloaded at .005-.010(Ed Peters or 5Digits stuff on Gary's site) and they were silent as can be. The single trans I had to go with some endplay, around .020 is whiny under load. All but one trans has used a speed gear or two from another transmission, so mismatched wear patterns could cause some noise, but only one of them with swapped gears has the noise. Shaft end play is all I've got. The next time the trans comes out of the R/T I'll be tightening it up a bit.
    Hmmm.. Sounds like if its still tight it shouldn't be it. Maybe the input shaft is bent? or irregular gear wear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Not sure if that option is present among all the different engine management in this thread. Are there self-contained units that reference wheel speed?

    Hey JT who keeps track of all the 1/4 mile times, dont forget to update your sig.
    LOL, thanks for the reminder!

    JT
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  4. #3044
    turbo addict
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Congrats JT!!

  5. #3045
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Thanks! Umm... my 2-step is only through the MSD DIS-2 Plus box, nothing fancy like that
    By fancy....do you mean logic module

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  6. #3046
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Very nice JT. I sure I missed it but whats the weight of your car these days?

  7. #3047
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    By fancy....do you mean logic module
    LOL, yep, the old school stand alones don't control much but spark and fuel.

    Quote Originally Posted by lengel View Post
    Very nice JT. I sure I missed it but whats the weight of your car these days?
    Thanks. around ~2750 lbs with me in it

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  8. #3048
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Didn't get a chance to install the ghetto 2-stage boost but will bring ti with to the track.

    Good news is I found the boost leak(s) and cause of high idle. I plugged the turbo inlet and put compressed air into the pressure tap on the comp housing. Soapy water blew bubbles at the TB gasket and the pipe to TB connector hose, and a weld on the BOX flange (that must have always been there)

    OK, no problem to fix those... took the IC to TB pipe off and then the TB off the intake... and then I found the real problem. The TB shaft was broken at the screw hole on the side closest to the throttle lever!? hole in the plate was probably the cause of the high idle, bingo.. WAIT a MINUTE, Where is the Screw!?!?!?? Crap! OK, so the setup has the TB inlet facing down towards the IC and then goes up into the intake, the screw head side is on TB inlet side... so maybe it fell into the IC? I put the magnet on flexible shaft in to the IC.. nothing. Then I shoved it into the intake plenum and fished around.. nothing. hmmm.. OK, snuck the camera into the IC and took a pic, no screw. Then took several pics of the inside of the plenum of the intake and nothing that looked like a screw. The runners / raised port velocity stacks are on the side of the plenum and I was thinking crap, how the hell did it fly up into one of those? I'm sure it could have, but then, I think it would have hurt an intake valve, piston, head, exhaust valve, turbine ... hmmm.. looking at the pics the floor of the plenum is pretty much flat except the Air temp sensor and one vacuum/pressure tap... hmmmm... pull the vacuum line off and bingo, there's the screw! yay!

    OK, so now I gotta decide what to do... this TB was junk. BTW, it was a "POWER" brand off ebay, and it was pretty cheap, so guessing Chinese for sure. Iwas working on the car to fix the issues so I could take it to the track tomorrow. Hmm... well, it is a Ford Mustang TB, what are the chances someone has one on the shelf? Called up Winner's Circle in Joliet and they had both BBK and Edelbrock 75mm TBS in stock! I headed out and ended up picking up the BBK as it was $15 less and I think it looked a little nicer too. All flange surfaces were machined and the Edelbrock some were "as cast"... I'm sure both work OK. Also picked up a spare TB gasket and a weatherpack connector. The Power TB had an adjustable TPS mount and I modded it to use the mopar TOS. The BBK (and edelbrock) didn't have they type of mount, but they did come with a Ford TPS... so I figured the connector was all I needed.

    Went home, prepped TB (filled AIS holes with cold weld, modded TPS, swapped AIS block off plate from old TB.) and put it all back together. After the TB was sealed up, found and fixed a couple more boost leaks.... and woke up the neighbors at about 11

    we'll see how she does at the Grove tomorrow!
    Finally adding pictures to help story in previous post...

    Had a spare 4" round in Aluminum... and made a quick adapter for the comp housing vacumm tap for the air compressor dialed down to 30psi
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Crap, the TB broke... yep, that's the high idle... WAIT A MINUTE! HOLYSH!T WHERE"S THE SCREW!?!?
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    In the IC? Nope...
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    Inside Plenum? hmmmm notice vacuum port and charge temp sensor on bottom of plenum and stacks on left side, could the screw get sucked up in the stack?
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    Luckily it was stuck in the vacuum line! Thank goodness, cuz I made at least one pass with it like that

    Old Power Brand TB with Chrysler TPS on left, New BBK TB with ford TPS on right
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    3 wires... yeah, we can figure that out, LOL!
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    AIS? Nope... my old FAST Classic ECU doesn't have that option...
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    New BBK TB... amazing how much better it idles now, LOL
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    JT
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  9. #3049
    boostaholic
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Damn, what did the IAC hole do? shoot your dog?

    3 wires... yeah, we can figure that out, LOL!
    hahaha, let me guess, every wire diagram online was wrong, been there.

  10. #3050
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor supercrackerbox's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Loc-tite on the screws this time?

  11. #3051

    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Was that screw that was remaining that mangled when it it was put in?

  12. #3052
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishcleaner View Post
    Damn, what did the IAC hole do? shoot your dog?

    hahaha, let me guess, every wire diagram online was wrong, been there.
    LOL.. I don't like vacuum leaks

    Actually got lucky on this one, the wiring was similar to the FAST harness... black red and signal so I just tried it with the laptop connected and it worked

    Quote Originally Posted by supercrackerbox View Post
    Loc-tite on the screws this time?
    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    Was that screw that was remaining that mangled when it it was put in?
    Actually the screw did not back out. The shaft broke and then the screw came out when there was enough clearance, probably when at WOT

    Why did the shaft break? Possibly tension on throttle cable when at WOT? The speed shop I got the new TB at said they saw carbs broke due to that. I didn't think I had any tension on it at WOT before and during install, modded the throttle cable bracket a little to try to reduce any tension on this TB.

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  13. #3053
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I have heard of BOV's set to hard break or bend over throttle blades .

  14. #3054

    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    The end of the remaining screw looks mangled like something hit it... So I am wondering what else has gone though that intake track?

    The only other thought is if the factory pinged it so that it couldn't back out.

    On the shaft breaking, what is causing the tension? The TPS shouldn't be causing any significant tension. More likely would be the throttle slamming shut at high boost (high differential pressure) flexing the throttle blade. That is consistent with what bakes is saying.

  15. #3055
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    The end of the remaining screw looks mangled like something hit it... So I am wondering what else has gone though that intake track?

    The only other thought is if the factory pinged it so that it couldn't back out.

    On the shaft breaking, what is causing the tension? The TPS shouldn't be causing any significant tension. More likely would be the throttle slamming shut at high boost (high differential pressure) flexing the throttle blade. That is consistent with what bakes is saying.
    Yep, the factory crimped it. That's why I was guessing the one only came out after the shaft broke.

    Tension in the throttle cable when at WOT... I have a rigged Turbo I cable and home made bracket so it might have been in tension a little?

    Throttle slam shut could also contribute, plus the thing has backfired, especially when cold, that all adds up!

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  16. #3056

    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I think I am starting to understand. "Tension on the cable" == side load on the shaft. Not rotational load on the shaft...

  17. #3057
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I think my first real car mod project was trying to port a 58mm tb and didn't know they crimp those screws. That turned out poorly.

    I would think since the throttle stop is on the same side that you are pulling on that cable tension is not the problem. Backfires and "dull" BOVs that don't work quickly or at lower boost levels are something my OEM Ford TB has seen. If mine breaks its going straight into the motor...
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  18. #3058
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by c2xejk View Post
    I think I am starting to understand. "Tension on the cable" == side load on the shaft. Not rotational load on the shaft...
    Yep you got it. Once it is fully rotated to WOT position if the cable is tight it still pulls on it putting bending moment onto the shaft

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I think my first real car mod project was trying to port a 58mm tb and didn't know they crimp those screws. That turned out poorly.

    I would think since the throttle stop is on the same side that you are pulling on that cable tension is not the problem. Backfires and "dull" BOVs that don't work quickly or at lower boost levels are something my OEM Ford TB has seen. If mine breaks its going straight into the motor...
    I agree, backfires are probably a major contributor

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  19. #3059
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    OK, dug through the archives to see what tire size and FDR have done for the car. Obvious that there are way more variables (air temp, launch rpm, shifting speed, etc) that I do not have exact data for but the ening combo has pretty much been the same and it is interesting that each combo is actually quite close...

    24.5" tire with 3.50:1 A568 ~155mph in 4th at 7k (144 @ 6500)

    Oct 2011
    Run #2 - Used 2-step, spun a bit more on launch and into 2nd, granny 3, slightly open throttle 4, AGAIN cut out top end but was a new best run!


    R/T: .108
    60': 1.806
    330': 4.792
    1/8ET: 7.063
    1/8mph: 110.81
    1000'ET: 8.996
    1/4ET: 10.623
    1/4mph: 138.44


    26" tire with 3.50:1 A568 ~164 in 4th at 7k (152 @ 6500)

    SDAC-22 June 2012
    Run #1 - Right off the trailer, cold tires @ ~11psi, moderate burnout (was too far in water so not too hot), 2-step, spin in 1st then hook, granny shifted, no cut out! felt decent, new PB!


    R/T: 0.314
    60': 1.7050
    330': 4.6569
    1/8ET: 6.9678
    1/8mph: 108.74
    1000'ET: 8.9131
    1000'mph: 127.04
    1/4ET: 10.5638
    1/4mph: 136.85


    26" tire with 3.85:1 A568 ~149mph in 4th at 7k (138 @ 6500)

    October 2012
    Run #1. 2-step, spin


    R/T: 0.094
    60': 1.760
    330: 4.716
    1/8 ET: 7.022
    1/8 mph: 109.52
    1000': 8.972
    1/4 ET: 10.600
    1/4 mph:139.66


    24.5" tire with 3.85:1 A568 ~141mph in 4th at 7k (131 @ 6500)

    Today, October 20, 2013
    Run #2 No 2-step, hook for a second then spin 1st, spin and shake 2nd, 30psi


    R/T: 1.782
    60': 1.713
    330: 4.722
    1/8 ET: 7.008
    1/8 mph: 107.73
    1000': 8.945
    1/4 ET: 10.557
    1/4 mph:140.55
    OK, re-visiting this post... looked up teh data logs for each run. I had logging issues so did not get logs for the 10.56 run or 10.69 on that setup, so substituted the 10.86. Close enough to compare shift points.

    Comments/Observations
    -1st gear spinning on all runs - all the way thru on 24.5" tires - 10.55 actually started to hook then let go
    -2nd gear spinning on 24.5" tire runs
    -2nd gear bouncing (sidewall diameter increase shows up in rpm fluctuation) on all runs, more on 26's with taller sidewall
    -4th gear cutout on 10.62 & 10.86 run
    -10.62 & 10.86 runs were pre-coil overs
    -24.5"/3.50:1 and 26"/3.85:1 have similar shift points
    -28-30 psi on most runs, 10.55 was close to 31psi
    -140°F on all runs but 10.86 which hit 151°F
    -Practice, practice, practice, shifting improves with practice

    Soooo... could the 24.5"/3.50:1 combo be better than the 10.55 with no cutout, 31psi, stiffer suspension and better driver mod?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    JT
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  20. #3060
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
    Join Date
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    JT, have you ever broken down your timeslips into time intervals to compare them? I find this to be the best way to see how well the changes are or are not helping the car to accelerate down the track.

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