BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

That's why I said stick a bearing in there too, a flat needle bearing or something, thrust bearing..

edit: Hmmm actually would you need 2 thrust bearings one on the back, one on the front....

Or alternatively... teflon washers tween fender washers...

Got me thinking I miiiiight try something on my van along these lines...

edit2: Oh, better be SS washers with teflon washers, they'll carve up quick if there's any rust.

A couple roller bearings and a thrust bearings still will not accomplish the articulation required. You would at a minimum need a spherical bearing plus some sort of compliance to allow translation alond teh stub strut axis. Draw up a free body diagram plan (top) view and look at the axes of rotation for each the frotn pivot and stub strut

actually, bearings should make it ride smoother, cause there will be no resistance to the up and down movement of the arm. fore and aft will be darn near solid due to the stiffer poly bushings anyway.

ive always wanted to try the rear wheel bearings and races to replace the front LCA bushings.

or something like that. make up a seal too and use stainless so its weatherproof.

brian

in fact, i think i remember a GRM article where they put roller bearings on the front bars of a porsche 914 and were pleasantly surprised at the ride quality.

Brian

Sure, bearings can make it ride smoother on smooth roads, but not over bumps, expansion joints, potholes, etc.

SS is weather proof? sure, but dust/grit will get in and wear them in short order.

There are reasons you dont see bearings, spherical rod ends, etc. in production car suspensions...

[RoadWarrior222]

There are reasons you dont see bearings, spherical rod ends, etc. in production car suspensions...

I figured it was 'coz of $5 a unit, instead of 25 cents

Though yah, have to look at that angle... see if it can get minimum compliance out of stacked rubber sheet and washers as well as bearing, boot over the top and robert is your mother's brother...

[BadAssPerformance]

With the price of rubber these days, SS would alsmost be a cost wash... LOL... oie... but serioulsy, the bushings have a ton of engineering in them to work "propery" and ride/handle well

Not to mention...

#1 Warranty in a vehicle suspension = Lower/Upper Ball Joints
#2 Warranty in a vehicle suspension = Ball Joint Type Stabilizer Links

Yes, I design/sell suspension components for a day job, LOL...

[Aries_Turbo]

Sure, bearings can make it ride smoother on smooth roads, but not over bumps, expansion joints, potholes, etc.

SS is weather proof? sure, but dust/grit will get in and wear them in short order.

There are reasons you dont see bearings, spherical rod ends, etc. in production car suspensions...

ask jay, he says his is smooth. the grm guys said theirs was smooth. i dont believe you.

ss allows a seal to ride on a surface that doesnt corrode and keep the dirt and grit out. thats what i meant.

subaru STI's and some other models use sealed spherical bearings on the rear suspension. oem. not a harsh ride. ive been in them on bumpy roads.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

i dont believe you.

Believe whatever you want

[Aries_Turbo]

Believe whatever you want

have you been in a car with solid bushings? i just told you that i was in an oem solid bushing application and it was plenty smooth even on pothole roads around here. smoother than my k car with poly bushings and that has a decent ride.

actually, there is nothing to "believe". i have physical experience.

i know you have design experience. i also know you are the first to say "throw theory out the window [frank] and go with real world experience."

i dont see you trying to replace the ball joints with rubber bushings or the tie rods either. those are solid. those transmit forces to the chassis. forces from bumps too.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

have you been in a car with solid bushings?

Yes. Aluminum Delrin(Acetal) LCA bushings in a solid mounted (no bushings) body on frame car... talk about harsh.

You know why a "solid" joint suspension can "feel" ok on a rough road? Typically this is accomplished via rubber cradle mount bushings. It's gotta be isolated somewhere to take potholes and not rattle the driver's teeth.

Dont ge me wrong, I like a firm feel off the road, but on a non isolated K-Member like ours, solid joints are not going to ride nice thru potholes.

Not sure what I'm using for bushings yet. Johnny has some high duro poly urethane I might try...

[BadAssPerformance]

Coil Over Components... archiving links/data here for future KC DIY article

Koni 8610-1437 Single Adjustable* inserts - Koni info here
Stroke: 153mm (6.024")
Max Length: 540mm (21.259")
Min Length: 387mm (15.236")
"A" Insert length: 332mm (13.07")
"D" Insert OD: 43.5mm (1.7125")

*Double Adjustable use 8611-1259

Strut Option A - 1987 Style Monroe info here
Body Length: 14.125"
Compressed Length: 11.625"
Exteneded length: 17.625"
Travel: 6.00"

Strut Option B - 1989 Style Monroe info here
Body Length: 13.500"
Compressed Length: 10.875"
Exteneded length: 17.250"
Travel: 6.375"

[Reaper1]

Most of the people with our cars that swap to solid bushings or a bearind type set-up in the front usually state they are pleased with the ride and the performance of the suspension. Some even say it's better than with bushings.

JT, I also used to think the stub strut type suspension on our cars limited the arms' movement, but after taking mine off I noticed that in the normal operating range of the arm that it really didn't offer a lot of resistance. This is because of the angle that the stub strut is located. It basically is there to limit the forward/aft movement of the arm. The front bushing is there for the "rotation" of the part.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yep, and most of the people with our cars like solid motor mounts where you can feel the vibration of the engine too

Stub strut.... The angle of the stub strut ads some resistance with stock bushings, but yeah, not too much. I add more resistance with PU bushings, but still, not too much. Add rigid bearings... it may not move at all.

[BadAssPerformance]

Run #3 - Spun less hard still 3 gears... cut out in 4th .... BUT it was a FUN RACE! The Dart in the right lane pulled a wheelie off the line and was GONE... so I chased him down and if it dditn cut out in 4th woulda flew by him before teh stripe instead of after like I did

_ME______DART_
.245 R/T .195
1.863 60' 1.486
5.033 330' 4.447
7.424 1/8ET 6.989
105.94 1/8mph 96.18
9.434 1000'ET 9.208
11.148 1/4ET 11.109
130.52 1/4mph 117.2

Finally got the video uploaded.... Fun race

[BadAssPerformance]

Run #7 - Q-16 Round 3 (Semi's), 30psi ... Pro Tree... Spun in 1st ... This was another FUN race vs. Warren Stramer... Battle of the G-bodies! Warren had a line lock issue when we were both staged and he rolled thru and had to back up and re-stage. I knew I had to make up about a half second so was watching the tree the whole time and as soon as he staged the yellows lit and surprized both of us... I was late but not as late as Warren so got off to a nice hole shot! Looking over my shoulder, I saw Warren coming hard and thought he would blow by me. He was side by side by the 1/8 and stayed there the rest of the way! This was another fun race, great times Warren!

_____Warren____JT
R/T: 1.026 ___ .497
60': 1.668 ___ 1.810
330': 4.481 ___ 4.932
1/8ET: 6.782 ___ 7.294
1/8mph: 107.46 ___ 107.33
1000'ET: 8.772 ___ 9.280
1/4ET: 10.470 ___ 10.936
1/4mph: 132.33 ___ 137.02 <== New Best 1/4 MPH

0.0638 difference at the line... damn close!

Videos to go with the timeslip... Another Fun Race!

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, only changes since the last runs at Byron:

-Dialed in crank trigger 1/2 turn
-re-tensioned timing belt
-flip-flopped slicks left to right

Runs from Great Lakes Dragaway (Grove where SDAC-21 was) MOPAR Day (Yesterday)

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, 30psi, spun thru 1 and 2, got out of the groove but back in it, great news, it did not break up! Was racing a new Challenger - 15.44 @ 99mph...

R/T: .082
60': 1.829
330': 4.945
1/8ET: 7.309
1/8mph: 106.91
1000'ET: 9.317
1/4ET: 10.994
1/4mph: 135.64

Run #2 - Felt similar on the launch but hooked up better before 3rd, but cut out in 4th Was racing a 300 running 12.00's all day long, we were even until 330', then traction and boost connected, LOL

R/T: .067
60': 1.848
330': 4.903
1/8ET: 7.270
1/8mph: 106.59
1000'ET: 9.273
1/4ET: 10.977
1/4mph: 132.45

Run #3 - Rasied the rev limiter to 7500. Felt good out of the hole, then missed 3rd and it would NOT go in for a few tries in a couple seconds

R/T: .035
60': 1.820
330': 5.057
1/8ET: 8.513
1/8mph: 68.16
1000'ET: 11.228
1/4ET: 13.233
1/4mph: 113.35

Run #4 - Topped off the cell, thinking low fueal and slosh when missing 3rd starved the pump? ... Spun hard in 1 and 2, too much wheel spin to get 3rd, missed it again, so just coasted down the lane

R/T: .089
60': 1.838
330': 4.965
1/8ET: 7.837
1/8mph: 80.26
1000'ET: 10.727
1/4ET: 13.553
1/4mph: 75.92


So.... still gotta trouble shoot the cut out

Looks like the reaction times are doing OK tho

[fishcleaner]

Great race, there must have some people on the sidelines wonder what the hell they just saw.

[BadAssPerformance]

Are you talking about the video of Warren and me? If so, that was at SDAC-21 so I would suspect most on the sidelines realized they just saw the worlds two quickest FWD G-bodies face off

[dodgeshadowchik]

Not bad! That 3rd gear is always giving you trouble it seems...

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, I think I need to pull it apart... something is FUBAR ... maybe its time to make a crashbox? LOL

[Rampage16V]

Almost time for an auto JT!

[BadAssPerformance]

almost time for an auto jt!

lol... Never! :d

[glhs0426]

Maybe time for you to try the shifter out of a 420A equipped DSM? You will need a set of cables to go with the shifter. Be the test mule. Get the short throw stick to go in there at the same time.