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Thread: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

  1. #2901
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Yep, plenty of options... since I'm a back to basics guy... the 24.5's shipped today!

    Kinda leaning towards keeping the twin disk for now tho...
    There ya go. That's why I love cars, so many ways to do and try things and you'd be hard pressed to call one method definitively better then the next until they are all tried. I'll be taking a way different approach and it will be cool to see both results. My whole approach has changed some watching you go through things so I appreciate what you've shared. Heck, I would probably still be in the 13s if it were for the openness of this community. I think as a community we will be learning allot about drivelines in the next few years. Now lets get that red beast back on the track and bust out some PBs.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    There ya go. That's why I love cars, so many ways to do and try things and you'd be hard pressed to call one method definitively better then the next until they are all tried. I'll be taking a way different approach and it will be cool to see both results. My whole approach has changed some watching you go through things so I appreciate what you've shared. Heck, I would probably still be in the 13s if it were for the openness of this community. I think as a community we will be learning allot about drivelines in the next few years. Now lets get that red beast back on the track and bust out some PBs.
    Yep, great community, that's for sure! I always appreciate how much folks share and like to share what I go thru so others don't have to LOL!

    Yep, always so many ways to do it, whenever I get stuck, I try to take steps back... thinking 24.5's, weaker clutch and 3.50:1 FDR ran forever that way. I might try it in steps tho, back to 24.5's keep the clutch and 3.85 gear just curious to see what that combo does. Gotta solve the cutout issue too, but need to last more than a pass to do that, LOL!

    Probably no PB's, just gotta get the car running consistent and reliable before Drag Week

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    We just need someone to tie MB to the train tracks at the top end. You'll get down quicker then you ever have.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    We just need someone to tie MB to the train tracks at the top end. You'll get down quicker then you ever have.
    I've always wanted a sweet handlebar mustache...

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Oh lord....and I was going to leave this alone....oh the PC incorrectness going through my brain!

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Liberty transmissions ARE the ones that Honda guys were inspecting every race (and faster guys were having to make repairs each race). Should I mention how much torque they are NOT making? Their 1000+hp guys are often making just a little more torque then the top people here. Kyle from Utah was maybe the 2nd fastest Honda out of Utah and he was the one fixing stuff every race that I know this first hand from. I don't think this stuff was publicized. I believe that car only got into the low 9's at Pomona. Huge weight advantage vs JT's beast. Most Honda guys refused to run 26's or would show up to 26" outlawSFWD events on 24.5's and expect to lose to the people who could afford new parts after the race. I don't think they spent much effort launching softly like DSM or Evo guys do, and I don't even know if they all preload the drivetrain (though I do see even n/a honda top dogs preloading).

    As Chris said they are basically designing their transmissions to be like ours already is.

    I don't see why we would worry about our input shaft being a solid piece since if we made an "improved" one when the stockers never fail, I don't see a failure coming.

    The problem is axle breakage. I don't see other things being a problem outside of the need for increased maintenance schedules on a race transmission (and expecting failures to happen as time goes on).
    Probably the reason the Honda guys hurt their Dogboxes is because they have gone so far on their axle improvements that they no longer had an obvious fuse for those times they shockload the drivetrain.

    I would be interested to know what Frenchy was doing with his axles beyond just using an auto transmission. Also, how violent was his 1-2 shift etc.

    I think people could learn from watching some of the Evo videos I have seen of Buscher racing and their 8-9 second evos that run tiny turbos. Some of those cars hit so soft you guys would really be complaining about "oh no my 60'!" but I don't think shockloading the axles ever helped a 60' in a FWD.


    - - - Updated - - -



    Here 8.8@169mph. Only 1.54 60'

    In his slower car on pump gas the video I watched he is a bit more violent with the clutch (30mph slower car).

    Here is a video of what looks like a failure to slip the clutch and a catastrophic failure. Instead of slip then rip like the videos above, its rip then broken rear axle which results in the engine tone changing with less load on it.


    Now, if you watch his customers videos I see them complaining about bogging (and how they have 60' 1.37 on cars slower then the above) or they just go all out on their launch, but these guys are also saying "i will go faster with blah blah improved drivetrain parts" indicating they are in the business of making other people money.

    I would take less stock in making the MPH match the e.t. That is one thing even the highest power Hondas did not attempt. The big money guys who ran 26's never ran 28's just to prove a point, they controlled their power all the way down the track so they could hit low 8's at 180-190mph. Those are not balanced numbers compared to John Shepherds Talon or an automatic transmission RWD.
    I also don't think its fair to compare E.T. and MPH to an Auto transmission car. We all like to think about how Manual transmissions give up e.t. for MPH but we avoid the fact that autos give up MPH for E.T. This means that the auto trans car that you think you make the same HP as because you trap the same, might make a lot more. I think this whole idea is bunk. At some point you can only improve so much with a reasonable investment. This is just like balancing HP made with boost and HP made with rpms. Making double the HP but halving the torque would be a good thing when it comes to your drivetrain. You have to plan ahead with all aspects of your build. I plan to use stock 6g72 rods for as long as I can get away with it so I will experiment with crazy rpms to reduce torque but seek higher power. My stock rods will handle over 9000 rpms (unknown fatique results) but 600-700ftlb and a perfect tune will slowly fatigue them and they will bend over time. Now, high rpms will place my transmission in jeopardy and make it the unknown factor.

    What is the highest RPM someone has shifted our transmission at (fast/power shift)? I hope to run 8500rpms minimum, preferably 9k+ if I can wring out any power at all. Flat shift mode full throttle would be my goal. This again would bring up the positive aspects of a carbon clutch. BTW honda guys also use strain guages on the shifter for their flat shifting even with dog boxes to sense when to drop rpms on the motor instead of relying only on a clutch switch.

    Imagine a strain gauge + modulated hydraulic clutch. DJ you want to do this! Strain gauge setups cost money but I think this stuff is great.
    And maybe modify the shifter so it has a spring action pushing it towards 5/R to avoid 1-2-1 shifts like this shifter below.
    http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/ind...ifter-kit.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    And another post I just found on H-T.

    Quote Originally Posted by kc03e46 View Post
    G-force is not so great after old man Lou retired and the gearset will not hold up to a 26" at all. Its good for small tire thats it.
    Refering to their dog box being unable to handle 26's at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3110419
    This might be the authoritative modern thread on this issue as it might apply to us.
    Miller is THE honda guy out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by miller View Post
    B series experience first.

    ALBINS is the best in my experience worth every dollar.

    PPG is also great, the only things I broke on the PPG was the ring and pinion.

    Liberty has its place and is hit or miss, on small tire stuff it stays together fairly well. Hard people to deal with from time to time and alot of people have trouble getting parts in "crunch" times.

    G-Force is horrible, everything breaks, the fit and finish is horrible. Nice people but their transmission sucks. Their parts are always readily avaialable which is nice but you seem to need them way to often.

    K series stuff,

    I only have experience with the PPG and frana. I havent seen any issues with the ppg boxes at all, great units.

    Frana, well they are the gforce of the k series stuff

    Albins seems to work great for SF but I have 0 experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by tepid1 View Post
    I know this was directed to Miller, but I'm going to chime in.

    I've used both Liberty and PPG. In that order too. lol

    Liberty is a great bang for the buck solution, but like others have said part are tough to get.

    PPG is very stout. I have one for my car and it's had a bunch of hits and a bunch of dyno time on it and it still looks great. Only problem I had is with the 4th gear dogs rounding and that was my own fault. I was using a stock SCHA instead of using a good one from SpeedFactory.

    Now, the nice thing about the Albins is that there are more FD options and the dogs are replaceable. When you finally figure out how to setup a trans like this the replaceable dogs are a great option. I wish I went this route early on.

    If you have $10k to spend I'd do it like this....
    Albins gearset
    Liberty billet case
    SpeedFactory SCHA
    New OEM forks
    DSS driveline
    and have it assembled by someone that knows what they are doing (James@Synchrotech)
    Then here is a breakdown on the best Honda Dog Box out there from Speedfactory (local to me, just like the baddest DSM/Evo shop Englishracing).

    Quote Originally Posted by JFK78 View Post
    Albins and PPG are the 2 best choices IMO, we wouldn't run anything else. They cost more, but you are paying for superior quality material, design, and manufacturing processes vs the US companies offerings.

    I prefer Albins because of their unique design features and I feel they have the best material, heat treat, and shot peen process. That and they have been receptive to working with us on making design changes as we gather more data and learn what areas can be improved on.

    The design features that set the Albins apart from the others is the use of removable/replaceable dogrings on 3/4 (which allows you to flip over the 3/4 slider and swap the 3/4 dogrings if you round the dogs on the power side, effectively giving you 2x the use out of those parts before needing to purchase new slider and dogrings), and the helical cut design which gives quiet operation, loads multiple teeth at once (rather than one tooth at a time like straight cut sets), and copes with shaft and case deflection/distortion loads better than straight cut designs.

    James @ Synchrotech said it all regarding setup and maintanence. Most people seem to think a dogbox should never ever need any care or maintanence, and that's just not how it works. Different car/driver combos will have different experiences with everything, and a set that works ok on a 24.5" car might not hold up to a 26" setup. I think our 35+ low 8 second passes this year at 185-191mph in the Outlaw car speaks volumes about how good the Albins set really is.
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    LOL @ people who apparently think dog boxes should never need any work. It's not a whole lot different than taking the synchro rings out a standard box and leaving everything else the same.. It's going to wear a LOT more.

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Liberty transmissions ARE the ones that Honda guys were inspecting every race (and faster guys were having to make repairs each race).....
    From my research many of the Liberty/Honda failures could be attributed to the case. Obviously not all of them but like most internet stories there isn't much in the way of failure analysis publicized, just that it broke.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I don't see why we would worry about our input shaft being a solid piece since if we made an "improved" one when the stockers never fail, I don't see a failure coming.
    Just the nature of it make the fabrication more expensive as you need to use a shaper for 3rd gear and a special hobb made to make the reverse gear. If it ever did break you would need to make the whole shaft again vs. just a gear or two.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    What is the highest RPM someone has shifted our transmission at (fast/power shift)? I hope to run 8500rpms minimum, preferably 9k+ if I can wring out any power at all. Flat shift mode full throttle would be my goal. This again would bring up the positive aspects of a carbon clutch. BTW honda guys also use strain guages on the shifter for their flat shifting even with dog boxes to sense when to drop rpms on the motor instead of relying only on a clutch switch.
    I was "flat shifting" at 8000 and with the modified synchros and it was more in then out but still not all shifts caught. Personally I'm done with synchros.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Imagine a strain gauge + modulated hydraulic clutch. DJ you want to do this! Strain gauge setups cost money but I think this stuff is great.

    And maybe modify the shifter so it has a spring action pushing it towards 5/R to avoid 1-2-1 shifts like this shifter below.
    I don't want to start getting into my plans b/c this is JTs thread. As I move forward I'll cover it in my own log but let's just say I sold my A568 last week. There will be no strain gauges and no chance of a 1-2-1 shift ever again. :thumbup:

    It seems by my own research that Albins is a quality gear set but it is also quite a bit more as are PPG. It's always easy to talk about the best when it's someone else's money. I do like their replacable dogs in the Albins. The only sets I know currently available for the T850 is the Frana and Liberty. I don't know if PPG and Albins have been approached or not but of the two that are available I like Liberty's design much better then Frana. Frana has stories of success and failure and the Liberty hasn't been around long enough yet with only 3 that I know of being produced.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Strain gauges aren't that expensive. The challenge is to have the other components to work with it...usually some sort of amplifier and software.

    Dog boxes don't necessarily need more work or wear quicker than a standard box. It depends on how they are used. Think about all the motorcycles, outboard engines, and outdrives there are out there in the motorcycle/boating world. ALL of your current outboards and most of the light-duty outdrives use dog-type engagement. They get serviced every 100 hours or so (if done correctly) and unless something catastrophic happens they last quite a long time. The trick to them is that you need to make sure they get into gear as quickly as possible, preferably without any torque being applied to the gearset.

    Unless we are looking at completely custom gear ratios, I still see no reason to make a custom input shaft. If custom ratios are indeed the intent, then I agree that a "modular" type of set-up would be the way to go.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    The trick to them is that you need to make sure they get into gear as quickly as possible, preferably without any torque being applied to the gearset.
    Yes, you either go back in time and drive them like we drove cars before synchronizers were invented, or you drive them hard and accept that they will need work on an almost CONSTANT basis compared to the 100, 200, 300,000 mile longevity of regular transmissions, even under 'hard' use. The only reason anybody wants dog clutch engagement on a modern car is for drag racing, and under that type of usage it will wear, and need work.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Yes, you either go back in time and drive them like we drove cars before synchronizers were invented, or you drive them hard and accept that they will need work on an almost CONSTANT basis compared to the 100, 200, 300,000 mile longevity of regular transmissions, even under 'hard' use. The only reason anybody wants dog clutch engagement on a modern car is for drag racing, and under that type of usage it will wear, and need work.
    No, you simply have a spark cut enabled during a shift. Dog engagement transmissions are sued for all kinds of vehicles. I named off a few. The only *high maintenance* thing about them is that they need to have the fluid changed more often. Yes, this is to get metal shavings out of the fluid, but unless you see large chunks, there's no need to rip into it unless there is some other obvious problem.

    I want dog clutch engagement because it is lighter, simpler, and can have larger load capacity than synchro engagement. Unless you REALLY screw up, grinding a gear is not a worry. It's also easier to adapt a sequential set-up to a dog engagement system.

    Just wondering, do you ride a motorcycle at all? If so, you already know what I'm talking about. If not, read up on it and go talk with people that mess with it, and hold them in your hands if you can. It really is a good way to go for manual trannies.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    No, you simply have a spark cut enabled during a shift. Dog engagement transmissions are sued for all kinds of vehicles. I named off a few. The only *high maintenance* thing about them is that they need to have the fluid changed more often. Yes, this is to get metal shavings out of the fluid, but unless you see large chunks, there's no need to rip into it unless there is some other obvious problem.

    I want dog clutch engagement because it is lighter, simpler, and can have larger load capacity than synchro engagement. Unless you REALLY screw up, grinding a gear is not a worry. It's also easier to adapt a sequential set-up to a dog engagement system.

    Just wondering, do you ride a motorcycle at all? If so, you already know what I'm talking about. If not, read up on it and go talk with people that mess with it, and hold them in your hands if you can. It really is a good way to go for manual trannies.
    All modern sport bikes have dog box's. The only time I hurt my trans is at Mission, where you are constantly rowing the gears so to speak from 1-2 due to its slow speed and technical nature. At higher speed tracks, my trans lasts forever. To shift, I just stand on the shifter-the linkage is converted GP style so push down to shift vs up for regular joe's, and just snap the throttle, it drops right into gear.
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Yes, this is to get metal shavings out of the fluid, but unless you see large chunks, there's no need to rip into it unless there is some other obvious problem.
    Im not saying it will go to ---- in X amount of time, im saying that X amount of time is a tiny fraction of what it would be in a 'normal' street car transmission if you drive both in a way that doesn't break them. If you take a normal transmission that can last practically forever under normal use, and start driving it so hard that it develops problems in 5 miles, and then you replace it with a dog-clutch tranny that lasts 50 miles under the same condition, that does not make the dog-clutch transmission a long-lasting transmission in any OTHER context.. just that ONE. It doesn't mean it's a longer-wearing design in general, it is definitely NOT! Bike transmissions dont last as long as car transmissions either! They just last longer when you're driving like you're TRYING to break it.

    Im not against dog boxes, my original point was just that i thought it was funny that people thought installing a dog box meant they would never have to work on their trans again when it takes everything that makes a normal transmission last forever, and throws it out the window.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman² View Post
    All modern sport bikes have dog box's. The only time I hurt my trans is at Mission, where you are constantly rowing the gears so to speak from 1-2 due to its slow speed and technical nature. At higher speed tracks, my trans lasts forever. To shift, I just stand on the shifter-the linkage is converted GP style so push down to shift vs up for regular joe's, and just snap the throttle, it drops right into gear.
    I only ever really used my clutch on my bike when I was starting from a dead stop, in traffic, or I knew that a botched downshift would be a bad thing. Other than that, I just blipped the throttle any time I wanted a different gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Im not saying it will go to ---- in X amount of time, im saying that X amount of time is a tiny fraction of what it would be in a 'normal' street car transmission if you drive both in a way that doesn't break them. If you take a normal transmission that can last practically forever under normal use, and start driving it so hard that it develops problems in 5 miles, and then you replace it with a dog-clutch tranny that lasts 50 miles under the same condition, that does not make the dog-clutch transmission a long-lasting transmission in any OTHER context.. just that ONE. It doesn't mean it's a longer-wearing design in general, it is definitely NOT! Bike transmissions dont last as long as car transmissions either! They just last longer when you're driving like you're TRYING to break it.

    Im not against dog boxes, my original point was just that i thought it was funny that people thought installing a dog box meant they would never have to work on their trans again when it takes everything that makes a normal transmission last forever, and throws it out the window.
    I didn't think you were against dog boxes. I also laugh at people who think performance parts means less work (usually it's the opposite). There was a video from a long time ago with some dude in the middle east with a Skyline that had a dog box in it. He did NOT know how to drive it! It made my spine crawl every time he tried to put it in gear! LOL

    I think it would be an interesting study to know whether one or the other actually had a longer life in "normal" driving conditions.

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    There was a video from a long time ago with some dude in the middle east with a Skyline that had a dog box in it. He did NOT know how to drive it! It made my spine crawl every time he tried to put it in gear! LOL
    Oh man i remember that. I cringed for the whole video. :X

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Good discussion everyone

    Update

    Talked to DSS and they think the higher shock factor from the 26's is the main culprit. I tend to agree. Waiting for diagnosis from latest carnage.

    Fresh 24.5's arrived today...

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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I would stay away from Liberty. I don't buy blaming the case since the Albins have survived worse on stock case. Supposedly because they are not straight cut etc. Again, if you want a dogbox that can only handle a small tire (Liberty), then the reasons for upgrading are getting lost.

    Liberty never solved things for the Honda crowd over many years and with more customers then we could dream of. Also, they suck for buying replacement parts which is why people were even trying cheaper boxs so they could at least service their transmission every time they drove it.
    G-Force apparently has a lower quality cheaper dog box that people use simply because they can get parts and not miss races.

    Even Dog boxes require Strain gauges for shifting properly so Unless you want to find out about Liberty's replacement parts service. Many dogbox problems are attributed to not running a strain guage or not using it properly. People without them tend to clutch shift to save their transmissions. Again, this means we lose the whole point of running a dogbox. They are running these transmissions because their stock transmissions have complete mechanial gear failures, not 100-200k miles of abuse or recent rebuild with old bearings problems. I believe liberty boxs also pop out of gear on decel because they don't have a certain needed design feature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ======================================

    I just spoke with Joe Sirianni who I knew was reving his turbo 3.0 out to 8k rpms (no higher because of his mildish cams) and his story makes me doubt some people here, or their driving ability.

    His a543 grinds 3rd at all times unless its "wot or super fast shifted"
    BUT,
    With a heavy Turbos Unleashed stage 2 6 puck sprung hub and no flatshift function on his megasquirt, he said he has never ever had a problem WOT shifting his garbage transmission at or near 8k. No slippage either.

    I find this at Odds with a lot of BENCHRACING here. That or bad driving. I know all my bad shifts were my fault. I hope to at least try a 9000 rpm shift in the next couple of weeks if I get the hardened washers/shims I need. 3 puck solid with flatshift should work a little better then his combo but I don't have the driver mod. In a high powered setup I tend to not push the clutch in enough when doing a WOT or hard shift because my brain is scared to fully commit due to power levels where with stock n/a engine I could shift with no fear.

    I thought the whole thing we were trying to fix was broken axles and this all seems to have gone offtrack and off facts. The axle problem seems to have been completely skipped. FWD axles are clearly something you have to treat with care even when built to the hilt.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-24-2013 at 12:10 PM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  18. #2918
    turbo addict
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    It's sort of gone off track. The thread is about JT's build all together...including the transmission and axles. We started out trying to figure out how to make axles live, and somehow got on the track of gearsets and entire boxes...I think because it *may* be easier to source stronger axles and parts for said boxes.

    LMK when you wanna tryt o break stuff....I'll be more than happy to lend a hand if I can I can at least hold the camera! LOL

  19. #2919
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    For this ride, anything related to drivetrain durability is fair discussion as far as I'm concerned

    Update from DSS... will temper down a bit further on next set, hope to ship out today. Failure mode for outer CV was the cage (will confirm). Also sent pics of Eric's axles asking what the difference is.

    Meeting up with VNTES tonight to get new slicks swapped onto Bogarts...

    Regarding testing... anyone have access to a hardness tester and time to test hardness on some axle stubs? I might need another source if I cannot get this done locally.

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  20. #2920
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    If JT is getting near the same 60' on the 24.5' I would still enjoy seeing him up the power regardless of the desire to get loose converter automatic transmission E.T. to MPH ratios. Reeves certainly is not hurting by running staged boost.

    I would like to thank one of my broken axles for giving me material to make a tool to turn my diff in the case
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-25-2013 at 12:08 PM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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