BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

$1500 for a custom input shaft isn't bad, if it's made correctly.

Sorry if my short phrase seemed to infer that I didn't think that was a fair price for a badass input shaft... I do think it's a reasonable price and I know exactly what it cost to make stuff.

Also, you may have noticed that I'm not afraid to shell out cash when I want/need something? LOL

My "oie" was because that is only one component of a trans and when you start adding stuff up, the total gets large rather quickly and at the end of it you may have a "built T850" that still might not last like Brent said, the ragetek users were rebuilding each race...

...so as it adds up and I really don't have time to rebuild stuff every weekend... it makes me think about a true purpose built straight cut gear dogbox or Lenco type transaxle. then I say oie, that's a lot of work and investment...

[contraption22]

$1500 for a custom input shaft isn't bad, if it's made correctly. It's a low volume part made of a material that is a serious pain to machine, and requires some machining methods that take the correct tooling to make happen in the tolerances required. Plus, you guys are already spending that much on axle sets. At the point in the game that you guys are at, I don't think it should surprise you at all that this kind of investment is what is "normal" to get some semblance of reliability out of 25+ year old technology that is being pushed to 400%+ of its nominal load rating.

Yeah, we love our TM's. We love how "inexpensive" it is to get to a certain level of performance. However, I think it's quite acceptable to expect this kind of investment to get the best of both performance and reliability at this stage in the game. Look at what the diesel guys spend on transmissions. They don't blink at spending $3k on a torque converter, $800 on an output shaft...ect. Looking at the performance gains on a percentage level, and we aren't that much different.

That's very well stated.

[Vigo]

...so as it adds up and I really don't have time to rebuild stuff every weekend... it makes me think about a true purpose built straight cut gear dogbox or Lenco type transaxle. then I say oie, that's a lot of work and investment...

Yeah screw all that! I think if you stick to 24.5s and maybe invest in a hydro clutch conversion with a tunable release like what's been talked about, then you can quit worrying about breaking stuff on the launch and then focus on other stuff.. Or if you want to keep messing with the launch, you can do it in the tune as well.. Between a consistent, controlled clutch release and what you can do with the engine management, you may be able to go back to 26s but i wouldnt bother until you have at least some of that stuff in place. I just dont think throwing stronger parts at it ($$$) is the best way to go when there is always that possibility of working your clutch leg wrong and breaking that stuff too..

[BadAssPerformance]

Funny thing is it went 10.61 on 24.5's and only 10.56 on 26's... Hmmm

[turbovanman²]

$1500 input shaft? .... oie.

Ordered a set of 24.5" M&H's... Thinking to be safe I might go back to a single disc clutch too? Hmm....

Sell the twin disc cheap?

Sorry if my short phrase seemed to infer that I didn't think that was a fair price for a badass input shaft... I do think it's a reasonable price and I know exactly what it cost to make stuff.

Also, you may have noticed that I'm not afraid to shell out cash when I want/need something? LOL

My "oie" was because that is only one component of a trans and when you start adding stuff up, the total gets large rather quickly and at the end of it you may have a "built T850" that still might not last like Brent said, the ragetek users were rebuilding each race...

...so as it adds up and I really don't have time to rebuild stuff every weekend... it makes me think about a true purpose built straight cut gear dogbox or Lenco type transaxle. then I say oie, that's a lot of work and investment...

Cough auto cough.

Funny thing is it went 10.61 on 24.5's and only 10.56 on 26's... Hmmm

And didn't keep breaking shitt,

[BadAssPerformance]

Sell the twin disc cheap?

$1200?

Cough auto cough.

Maybe if I lost a leg?

And didn't keep breaking shitt,

yep... THATS what I miss about the 24.5's!

[cordes]

Sorry if my short phrase seemed to infer that I didn't think that was a fair price for a badass input shaft... I do think it's a reasonable price and I know exactly what it cost to make stuff.

Also, you may have noticed that I'm not afraid to shell out cash when I want/need something? LOL

My "oie" was because that is only one component of a trans and when you start adding stuff up, the total gets large rather quickly and at the end of it you may have a "built T850" that still might not last like Brent said, the ragetek users were rebuilding each race...

...so as it adds up and I really don't have time to rebuild stuff every weekend... it makes me think about a true purpose built straight cut gear dogbox or Lenco type transaxle. then I say oie, that's a lot of work and investment...

There was a link which Reaper posted regarding the direction of stress for the different cuts of gear in transmissions. I didn't like what straight cut gears would do to some of the areas on the case, but I'm an amature engineer in my own mind at best...

[turbovanman²]

$1200?

I don't want to buy the car,

Maybe if I lost a leg?

That can be arranged,

I'm an amature engineer in my own mind at best...

Aren't they part of an electric motor?

[cordes]

I don't want to buy the car,




That can be arranged,



Aren't they part of an electric motor?

Did you think I meant armature?

[BadAssPerformance]

I don't want to buy the car,

you ain't got enough cash ;P

That can be arranged,

lol, tuff guy

[turbovanman²]

Did you think I meant armature?

Buggin ya dude, as its spelled "amateur"

you ain't got enough cash ;P

What, my penny collection won't do?

lol, tuff guy

Me, tough guy, nope, but I know others who are,

[22shelby]

torque convertor and just smash the gears??? i know the puller guys use an automatic with a clutch instead of a TC...

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... hey, do you still have that link you set for the dogbox? post it up!

[22shelby]

chu talking to me?? you talking about that Red FWD lenco style?

[BadAssPerformance]

chu talking to me?? you talking about that Red FWD lenco style?

yes, and yes please

[22shelby]

found eet!! http://www.paradiseracing.com/gforce3.htm
apparently its a Gforce transmission called the GT50....grip and rip baby!!

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and from my searching it seems the liberty transmission si doing a Transaxle aswell... ill link that aswell..

seems to be Honda specific but im sure with your sweet talking they would consider joining the mopar world...

what would be nice with the Gforce is the use of a slipper clutch!!! roll out as hard or soft as you want to set it up, then slam gears down the track!

http://www.libertysgears.com/frontwheeldrive.htm

[BadAssPerformance]

found eet!! http://www.paradiseracing.com/gforce3.htm
apparently its a Gforce transmission called the GT50....grip and rip baby!!

http://www.libertysgears.com/frontwheeldrive.htm

*drool* ...yes, this is awesome

[Reaper1]

Crap...after reading what I wrote and then the response I need to apologize. Sorry, JT. My statement came out like I was attacking you. I didn't mean that at all!

I've been thinking about a custom FWD gearbox for years, mainly to get 6 gears and a dogbox. The thing is, I can't find any that are rated to handle the torque we are making. All the ones I find (save for the 3-speed dogboxes made for FWD pro drag racing) are more for touring cars and the like and are rated much lower than what my goals (and most everybody that is in the 11's in a TM) are. These boxes range anywhere from $7500-30,000+. Now, I don't know if those ratings are like the factory and have a very large factor of safety on them, but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money, then blow the thing to smitherines and find out that because I exceeded their ratings there is no warranty or support! Oh, and the prices are just for the box, not the custom bellhousing, clutch, CV's, mounts, shifter...ect

This is the major reason behind me keeping the idea of swapping the car to RWD very much open. Well, this and the fact that we don't have any real support for our own trannies...we can't even get new parts like bearings for them anymore! I know most of the TM world will not want to do the RWD conversion, so the next best bet is to either make it so our trannies have support, or find aftermarket racing boxes that will do what we need. I do believe there is a LOT left in our stock transmissions...IF we can get more support back for them so we can actually build them. Hording parts doesn't count! LOL

Anyway...WAY off topic now!

The only things I'd do to our gears are: lighten them (many ways to do this), modify them for dog engagement (requires modding the synchro assembly...and I mean full dog, not a crash box), polish them, and coatings applied (oil shedding and friction reduction).

I've been pondering case reinforcement recently. I've thought about an external "cage" or welding straps to it to help strengthen the case where the maximum loads are that cause issues, like spreading. Of course I don't know if anyone has tried any kind of heat treatment/chryo treatment, or peening yet either.

I'm positive that the axle problems we are seeing ("we" meaning you guys that actually have running cars LOL) can be solved. I just hope that somehow more support can be garnered for the transmission itself. It seriously sucks that it's nearing to the point that we can't find new parts for them.

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I looked at the GT50 and from what I gathered it is out of production, I *think*. For dedicated drag cars it would be great, but for people that want to drive the car more than that, you need either a huge air tank or a compressor so you have a constant air supply. Plus, it's not designed for other types of driving, so who knows what the downshifting is like. As for it being clutchless...Are they using a torque converter or some other type of slipper coupling? If not, then how does the car not move while the transmission is in gear and the car is not moving with the engine running?

The Liberty option would be more inline with the Neon trannies. Ours already are designed like that...4 gears inside, 5th outside. They are simply doing the same thing, but they have to use an adapter to do it.

A billet case would be nice, but it doesn't solve our other issues we have.

[turboshad]

Liberty has built a dogbox for the T850. I was going to try to faceplate an A568 but then found out at SDAC that there is a guy on the forum who is having Liberty do it for him. I haven't had a chance to call and talk with him any further than PMs but my guess is that the price Liberty would set would make any thought of me try to do it myself stupid. I also wonder if it's worth putting money into that type of procedure or just putting it towards a whole gear set. Personally right now I'm at the point of deciding whether to carry on with the A568 or switch to the T850. As of today I'm leaning more to the T850 as it is much more conducive in my opinion to modifying. Making a straight cut A568 isn't as easy and parts breakage would be more costly because of the input shaft with integral gears. As Reaper pointed out the GT50 is a strictly drag tranny, which wouldn't matter too much for JTs street car but for most of us its not an option. That being said it looks like a fine piece of engineering. JTs breakages are a problem but I do think there are options for him to continue on the path while being easier on parts. It's just up to him what he wants to or is willing to do.

[BadAssPerformance]

Crap...after reading what I wrote and then the response I need to apologize. Sorry, JT. My statement came out like I was attacking you. I didn't mean that at all!

No apology bro, your statements were pretty bang on for the masses

Liberty has built a dogbox for the T850. I was going to try to faceplate an A568 but then found out at SDAC that there is a guy on the forum who is having Liberty do it for him. I haven't had a chance to call and talk with him any further than PMs but my guess is that the price Liberty would set would make any thought of me try to do it myself stupid. I also wonder if it's worth putting money into that type of procedure or just putting it towards a whole gear set. Personally right now I'm at the point of deciding whether to carry on with the A568 or switch to the T850. As of today I'm leaning more to the T850 as it is much more conducive in my opinion to modifying. Making a straight cut A568 isn't as easy and parts breakage would be more costly because of the input shaft with integral gears.

YES interested...

As Reaper pointed out the GT50 is a strictly drag tranny, which wouldn't matter too much for JTs street car but for most of us its not an option.

LOL... if it can drive through the pits, staging lanes, down the track and return road, I'd drive it anywhere

That being said it looks like a fine piece of engineering. JTs breakages are a problem but I do think there are options for him to continue on the path while being easier on parts. It's just up to him what he wants to or is willing to do.

Yep, plenty of options... since I'm a back to basics guy... the 24.5's shipped today!

Kinda leaning towards keeping the twin disk for now tho...