BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[22shelby]

M&H or Mickey Thompson?? heres another dumb a$$ 22shelby thought, what about keeping with the 26" but mabye changing to an ET Street?? slightly harder compound but not as much stick upon launch... 26x9.5 and there are plenty of guys out there (rwd ofcourse) that have gone well into the 9s and even 8s on these tires... plus would boast a bit more of the street car aspect.. ever have any thought of that route?

[turboshad]

I would stay away from Liberty. I don't buy blaming the case since the Albins have survived worse on stock case. Supposedly because they are not straight cut etc. Again, if you want a dogbox that can only handle a small tire (Liberty), then the reasons for upgrading are getting lost.

Exactly, it seems the Honda case doesn't respond well to gear separating forces which are lessened with a helical cut gear set. I can find Liberty, G-force and PPG gear failures, all of which are straight cut. I haven't come across any Albins. I'll assume there is also a bit of how many have been purchased compared to the rest as well. PPG is very well respected an there stuff has still broken. Even with PPG gears many are running a Liberty billet case because the stock case just isn't strong enough. Pushing Honda power without a hand cuff, which adds to separation strength, seems to be unheard of. All this tells me the stock case is weak in that direction which will destroy any gear set in a heart beat. I'm not ready to discount Liberty just yet from problems on a completely different system.

Liberty never solved things for the Honda crowd over many years and with more customers then we could dream of. Also, they suck for buying replacement parts which is why people were even trying cheaper boxs so they could at least service their transmission every time they drove it.
G-Force apparently has a lower quality cheaper dog box that people use simply because they can get parts and not miss races.

I will agree they have a reputation for being slow in many communities, not just Honda.

Even Dog boxes require Strain gauges for shifting properly so Unless you want to find out about Liberty's replacement parts service. Many dogbox problems are attributed to not running a strain guage or not using it properly. People without them tend to clutch shift to save their transmissions. Again, this means we lose the whole point of running a dogbox. They are running these transmissions because their stock transmissions have complete mechanial gear failures, not 100-200k miles of abuse or recent rebuild with old bearings problems. I believe liberty boxs also pop out of gear on decel because they don't have a certain needed design feature.

So if I develop a PLC controlled paddle shift sequential setup with active feedback I'm not doing it properly? Oh right, strain gauges are the only right way, and everyone that isn't using strain gauges is destroying their transmission. There is always more then 1,2,3 or 50 ways to skin a cat and get the same result. Strain gauges are one way but it isn't currently in my plans of the road I want to take. There are allot of people that don't use their brains when they drive. Anyone can buy parts but not as many can use them to their potential and actually find the limit of them without making mistakes which cause their demise.

I just spoke with Joe Sirianni ... With a heavy Turbos Unleashed stage 2 6 puck sprung hub and no flatshift function on his megasquirt, he said he has never ever had a problem WOT shifting his garbage transmission at or near 8k. No slippage either.

Show me a log of TPS>90% and will believe a WOT shift, not saying he didn't but I now only believe logs, not brains and memories. I thought I did to until I looked at a log and I still don't know if I've actually done it. As for missing shifts, the times I did miss a shift I was probably rushing the shift and the synchros. AKA the sychros can't consistently shift as fast as I want them to so it's time to move on.

I find this at Odds with a lot of BENCHRACING here.

I hope you include yourself in the term benchracing. I will have to until I get hands on experience with a dogbox which I don't yet have, and motorcycles don't count.

I thought the whole thing we were trying to fix was broken axles and this all seems to have gone offtrack and off facts. The axle problem seems to have been completely skipped. FWD axles are clearly something you have to treat with care even when built to the hilt.

LOL... hey, do you still have that link you set for the dogbox? post it up!

Well JT started it in his own thread and it seems to be a topic of interest.

[Vigo]

buy parts but not as many can use them to their potential and actually find the limit of them

I will have to until I get hands on experience with a dogbox which I don't yet have

Well, i dont think anyone has exactly used the stock trans to its potential and found the limit either, and if enough people give up on it, we will never have to find out! Hooray!

Reeves' in-car video sure showed some fairly slow shifting considering he went quicker than some people who want to try dogboxes based on not being able to shift fast enough. I know not everyone has the same priorities so that is not exactly a jab, just an observation. I'm sure if you were interested in incremental progress with incremental changes, you'd be doing it, and probably starting with a lighter clutch disk. But that would only get you to the same thing that others have already proven out, so it may not offer much sense of innovation or accomplishment vs making bigger changes for bigger results.

[BadAssPerformance]

I think several of us have used the 175-224chp transaxles well beyond their designed duty level and they just keep taking a beating which kicksass, however, few of them are "stock" with LSD's or welded on intermediate shaft bearing races added to improve capability. ... and at higher HP levels, the fluid typically comes out with some metal in it. The cases are flexing. You may remember Reeves splitting the case in half?

The topic of dogboxes came up as a result of a desire to go to a larger axle diameter and the stock T850 being no better than our A568 IMO other than axle options. If it helps shift better, more reliably, bonus.

I have thought of another option to help parts live, but at this time I really don't want to take 300-400lbs out of my car yet...

Update: new 24.5's mounted, Thanks VNTES!

[Ondonti]

Exactly, it seems the Honda case doesn't respond well to gear separating forces which are lessened with a helical cut gear set. I can find Liberty, G-force and PPG gear failures, all of which are straight cut. I haven't come across any Albins. I'll assume there is also a bit of how many have been purchased compared to the rest as well. PPG is very well respected an there stuff has still broken. Even with PPG gears many are running a Liberty billet case because the stock case just isn't strong enough. Pushing Honda power without a hand cuff, which adds to separation strength, seems to be unheard of. All this tells me the stock case is weak in that direction which will destroy any gear set in a heart beat. I'm not ready to discount Liberty just yet from problems on a completely different system.



I will agree they have a reputation for being slow in many communities, not just Honda.



So if I develop a PLC controlled paddle shift sequential setup with active feedback I'm not doing it properly? Oh right, strain gauges are the only right way, and everyone that isn't using strain gauges is destroying their transmission. There is always more then 1,2,3 or 50 ways to skin a cat and get the same result. Strain gauges are one way but it isn't currently in my plans of the road I want to take. There are allot of people that don't use their brains when they drive. Anyone can buy parts but not as many can use them to their potential and actually find the limit of them without making mistakes which cause their demise.




Show me a log of TPS>90% and will believe a WOT shift, not saying he didn't but I now only believe logs, not brains and memories. I thought I did to until I looked at a log and I still don't know if I've actually done it. As for missing shifts, the times I did miss a shift I was probably rushing the shift and the synchros. AKA the sychros can't consistently shift as fast as I want them to so it's time to move on.



I hope you include yourself in the term benchracing. I will have to until I get hands on experience with a dogbox which I don't yet have, and motorcycles don't count.





Well JT started it in his own thread and it seems to be a topic of interest.

I don't think I need to question Joe's shifting habits. He owns the car for the purpose of trying to see how much abuse it will take and doesn't try to advertise "hey look what I did" so there is no reason to lie. I contacted him simply because I know how high he is reving. He didn't know people had any concerns. He knows what lockout feels like in mitsubishi transmissions from REAL inability to even lift shift above only 6k for some transmissions and he has never felt anything like that in his junk a543 or even thought about it. T850 has the same shifting problems until they go twin disc.
All I see are bad shifts caused by driving habits. Take a datalog of that. I thought Reaper1 would miss a gear in my car driving it for the first time and he had no problems even with my clutch adjusted improperly and a weird shifter setup. I have muffed quite a WOT shifts when doing roll racing test passes. Everything from the clutch timing to the shifter. Eliminating that would be great but it doesn't constitute "pushing things to their limits." I know some manly men here say they have never missed a gear in their life. I simply don't drive one clutch setup enough compared to another and my muscle habits are never set in stone.

Benchracing would be all the claims of the things our transmission can't do based on what basically amounts to subjective personal feelings. Benchracing that is completely wrong based on real world results. I do fear my own ability to shift a transmission so I don't see myself failing being the doom of a transmissions potential.

Sequential shifting is illegal in most racing classes that Honda's participate in. I don't know that I really like making things illegal over "cost/fake streetcar" concerns since teams always find ways to make huge investments into stockish items to get unfair advantages. Some of that racing should really include being forced to use certain items that are unmodified. The transmission thing is kinda lame. Anyone can make power but not everyone has a transmission that works for racing.

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I was mentioning to Adam that though I hate daily clutch function with fidanza flywheels that are made for us, it would probably help save some axles. When I had an aluminum flywheel I at least got to make a few passes on an axle with my terrible driving habits. It was probably bandaiding my garbage driving. I have never moved off the starting line with an OEM flywheel. I personally can't run a light flywheel in order to preserve a stock cast crankshaft and unbalanced internals. If the 4 cylinders love it then I would try it. I am kinda assuming that JT's flywheel was light weight though since people tend to use very exotic flywheels with custom multiple disc clutches..... I still see no harm in slipping the clutch out of a bog.

[turboshad]

I think I'm starting to realize my confusion on this subject.

JT, congratulations on the purchase of your new Honda!!! And here this whole time I thought we were still talking about your Dodge Shelby Z with the A543......or did it have an A568, I can't remember. Boy do I feel like an idiot.

Benchracing would be all the claims of the things our transmission can't do based on what basically amounts to subjective personal feelings. Benchracing that is completely wrong based on real world results.

You are totally right, my opinions of the A568s shifting abilities has nothing to do with my real world results and in reality I am just a bad operator which was demonstrated by my abilities to pull off a 1-2-1 shift. Heck I never even tried modifying it to shift to my liking. If I did I wonder what I would have tried to do.....hmmmm. I must also agree that all your "claims of the things other transmission options will or won't do" come from your vast hands on experience with them and don't at all come from your "subjective personal feelings" and hours spent on the interweb reading Honda forums (which I won't disagree have good information to help us Dodge guys make some decisions). Hence why in no way are you one of the biggest benchracers on this forum.

I'm going to go do some bench face palming.

[Vigo]

You may remember Reeves splitting the case in half?

I have two cases that look like that.. and not from power. I should probably go look at his pics again but honestly these k-car manual transmissions are the most case-cracking prone transmissions i personally know about so i would need a lot of supporting evidence before i believed that engine power did anything more than accelerate the progress of a crack that was started by something else.

But, i believe you about the case flexing to some extent. So, how is it flexing? I haven't seen anything on this forum about strengthening the case of the later-style trannies like 568. If we knew which way it was flexing, there might be a way to brace it, and that way is probably a lot cheaper and easier than a custom racing box. :P I told Ondonti a while back when discussing these trannies, that i would put our stock gearsets in a totally custom case before i bothered putting aftermarket gearsets in ANY case because if you're not stripping the teeth off 1st and 4th with sheer power (the gears most well-supported by the case) than everything else is probably a function of case strength.

If I did I wonder what I would have tried to do.....hmmmm.

Are you still running a sprung 4 puck? Just asking. It's pretty obvious where most of the synchros' work comes from and there are several fast people in this community who have followed that to its logical conclusion using both $100 and $1000+ setups. Pick your poison, except in this case poison = success.

[turboshad]

I'm with you Vigo that the gear set in the A568 is very strong and as a whole off the factory floor probably stronger then the T850. Heck I made mine weaker and it still took a beating. The apeal in this thread of the T850 came with the discussion of the larger output spline which tied into the axle discussion. There is also appeal in the fact that you can still get parts for them, mainly bearings. If you think it's hard to find A568 parts in the US, try living in Canada. Then the topic moved to dogboxes but not at all because of the gear strength. I had all intentions of faceplating my A568 for that very reason. Bottom line is I don't think anyone can argue the A568 gear set is tough as nails.

The case breakages I've seen that look like they happened from high power/fatigue make me think the end plate is flexing causing gear separation. Another cause has been the bearing racing chewing up the end of the bore which will surely develop cracks and lead to failure. I was also in the process of designing steal end plate to help solidify that end f things but that probably won't happen now.

^^^ I dropped the sprung hub years ago and switched to a solid. I have also removed half the synchro teeth from the 3-4 set which was a huge improvement but still not enough for myself. I can't speak for others on the topic. The only thing I didn't put in was an aluminum flywheel as I have mixed feelings on them and their ability to stand the test. The steel one I was using was lightened quite a bit.

[Vigo]

I think we're on the same page on a lot of the issues here, then.

I think dog boxes are kind of a straw man to be honest, given the cost and the number of unexplored options regarding the stock trans. For example, not that this is all totally figured out yet, but what about a 568 with some case mods, a carbon carbon or feramic unsprung 3 puck with a light flywheel and a controlled clutch release, a t850 diff carrier modified to fit in a 568 case to use the larger t850 axle ends, and then an as-yet unknown improvement to the outer CV cage? Hell, if crashboxing 3 and 4 helped, throw that in too (i still think disc weight is the larger issue)! That's a lot of improvement to a tranny that has already gone 10.01 or something like that, that noone has yet put together!

Seems to me there is a lot of life left in this basic design before we start talking about big-money dog boxes that throw street miles out the window and require you to take the trans out more than the one we already have!

[Reaper1]

I agree that case flex is probably a large factor in some of the failures we have seen. I though Reeves determined that he had a bearing lock up and that is what caused the mass destruction we saw? However, I can easily deduce that the bearing may have been loaded unevenly due to case flex and the whole thing compounded.

I've been thinking of different ways to brace and reinforce our stock tranny cases. I've thought of welding on straps to the outside of the case, making an external "cage/exoskeleton", and using plates that prevent twisting of one end of the case relative to the other. The problem with welding is that it could mess up critical machine tolerances for bearings and such and it could mess up any heat treatment the case might have had from the factory. The cage idea would take up some room that I'm betting more than one person would have a hard time giving up. The plates would work for the twisting, but it might be a race-car-only thing as the vibration that would result would be teeth rattling.

So, we also have the options of having the cases peened, chryogenically treated, or heat treated.

What any of these ideas would gain over stock is questionable and could really only be tested by failing the cases with the modifications. I'm not sure basically trashing that many cases would be worth it in the end.

[BadAssPerformance]

Sequential shifting is illegal in most racing classes that Honda's participate in.

So they cannot run automatic trans'?

I am kinda assuming that JT's flywheel was light weight though

No assumptions needed, I have always shared what I've done. I have an off he shelf ACT twin disk for SRT-4. The clutch only comes with a flywheel and it is not only a light flywheel, with its spoked design it also has a very low "I" ... pretty much looks like this:

I am just a bad operator which was demonstrated by my abilities to pull off a 1-2-1 shift.

Now THAT takes skill!

I have two cases that look like that.. and not from power. I should probably go look at his pics again but honestly these k-car manual transmissions are the most case-cracking prone transmissions i personally know about so i would need a lot of supporting evidence before i believed that engine power did anything more than accelerate the progress of a crack that was started by something else.

Maybe you haven't looked at enough Honda cases, or so I hear. I have only seen our cases split in half from power/abuse combo, not from a DD. *knock on wood* I haven't cracked one

But, i believe you about the case flexing to some extent. So, how is it flexing? I haven't seen anything on this forum about strengthening the case of the later-style trannies like 568.

I thought it was in Reeves' thread, but maybe there was more discussion IRL than online. Discussions about adding a full CM backup plate to the A568 like the A555 has, anything to limit the axial shaft migration and case twist.

If we knew which way it was flexing, there might be a way to brace it, and that way is probably a lot cheaper and easier than a custom racing box. :P

Think bout it, helical gears, counter spinning shafts... radial forces, axial forces... OK, now that the free body diagram is in your head.. think about how the forces and moments make it twist. The extent of twisting would need to be analyzed to actually determine where it breaks... Since it sounds like strain gauges grow on trees, if someone strain gauges a case up I'll toss it in and go abuse it so we can learn

Remember one point of the racing box was larger spline axles... which looking into it I think would be fairly pricey to modify an A568 to do that

i would put our stock gearsets in a totally custom case before i bothered putting aftermarket gearsets in ANY case because if you're not stripping the teeth off 1st and 4th with sheer power (the gears most well-supported by the case) than everything else is probably a function of case strength.

My last A568 failure was the large teeth coming off the ring and pinion, but I think one of the pinion teeth was chipped since it was in there... in an A520 in my T2 Shadow, the teeth just fell off one night not even abusing it... but previously they did have over 100 5000+rpm launches

Are you still running a sprung 4 puck? Just asking.

I've run many clutches in different cars, but in the Z behind the 2.4L I've run ACT 6-puck sprung, ACT 6-puck solid and ACT twin disk (pictured above)

I haven't really tried to WOT shift it cuz I'm so ecstatic after it makes it more than a foot down the track I forget to, LOL

I agree that case flex is probably a large factor in some of the failures we have seen. I though Reeves determined that he had a bearing lock up and that is what caused the mass destruction we saw? However, I can easily deduce that the bearing may have been loaded unevenly due to case flex and the whole thing compounded.

The 3.50:1 gear set he ran had fine teeth... best guess is the teeth simple fell off and one ground between the gears put enough side load on shafts to split the case.

I've been thinking of different ways to brace and reinforce our stock tranny cases. I've thought of welding on straps to the outside of the case, making an external "cage/exoskeleton", and using plates that prevent twisting of one end of the case relative to the other. The problem with welding is that it could mess up critical machine tolerances for bearings and such and it could mess up any heat treatment the case might have had from the factory. The cage idea would take up some room that I'm betting more than one person would have a hard time giving up. The plates would work for the twisting, but it might be a race-car-only thing as the vibration that would result would be teeth rattling.

So, we also have the options of having the cases peened, chryogenically treated, or heat treated.

What any of these ideas would gain over stock is questionable and could really only be tested by failing the cases with the modifications. I'm not sure basically trashing that many cases would be worth it in the end.

Exactly... lots of things that could be developed to make the case stronger, but the cost to develop probably outweighs actually doing it. I really can;t think it woudl be worth going beyond adding better support plates and running better bearings or straight cut gears to better deal with axial shaft loading

[Vigo]

One of the things i mentioned to Brent at one point is that for a race car that doesn't NEED 5th gear, you could remove those gears and and add more bearings and another support plate to that area. I dont know how much it would do for the other end of the case. 5th gear is pretty useless. In fact, i calculated out (paging Reaper1..) that 4th gear on a 3.05 gearset would go over 200 mph with a pretty normal-size tire... A stock 568 will go about 145 @ 7000 rpm in 4th on 24.5s, or 157 if you change it to 3.50 fd.

I dont think the pinion-to-ring gear failures have ever been PRIMARILY a case strength thing. I think it's almost always been a case of foreign objects getting munched by the teeth, even if they are other teeth off the same gears.. hahah Pinion bearing failure might be another contributor if it lets the gears get far enough out of whack during a big load.

[BadAssPerformance]

Reeves has been mulling over removing 5th for a while, kinda why he tried the 3.05's...

I think the case flex allows the gears/shafts to move axially which then affects the gear tooth face loading. And with helical gears and one shaft going one way with the other going the other, and gear shift they unload and load... like a slide hammer? hmmmm

In my last A568 I had a mint bearing back up plate I swapped in and with only a couple passes it was hammered by both bearings and looked like the one that was in there for many passes before. Problem is the input shaft is on taper bearings and the intermediate shaft is on rollers. This is for mass production toleranceing and lets the speed gears float on the input shaft and the pinion to float on the ring gear. Ideally all the gears would be fixed at their proper locations. With high HP end plate flexing they move quite a bit... and the teeth fatigue

[Vigo]

Well, if you got rid of 5th and were willing to do some work i can see making some tapered roller bearings work at that end of the trans too, or maybe a thrust roller bearing (torrington type thing) for the pinion shaft to control its lateral movement.

[turboshad]

Exactly... lots of things that could be developed to make the case stronger, but the cost to develop probably outweighs actually doing it. I really can;t think it woudl be worth going beyond adding better support plates and running better bearings or straight cut gears to better deal with axial shaft loading

This about sums up my thoughts. Many things mentioned can be done but I haven't even had time to touch my car since October. Most of those mods will take quite a bit of time and money. Add replacement bearings and case availability growing scarcer by the day (especially in Canada) and you start to see why I sold my A568 to take on a new path of adventure.

[Ondonti]

3000gt crown both uses billet, cast and exoskeleton braces on transfer cases. Billet endcases and midcases. They weld braces around their shafts in the bellhousing to keep the case happy. Some of those welded cases are unhappy when not carefully done. Nissan guys weld their cases in SR20 FWD's.
Even our a413 guys weld cases and go to pretty extreme lengths to get their transmissions to be happy while the manual crowd seems to say...no thanks. People here should really see how far Red Sled has gone into 31TE mods, especially recently. I find the money spent there to be crazy but at the same time many people can benefit. I believe he is forced by rule to use a stock style transmission in order to use an automatic and those "lame" rules benefit others just like Frenchie being forced to use a stock transmission was good for the common man.

SBCs are still in catalogs and are not going away anytime soon. I can't understand the idea of throwing everything away because it is not good enough and not simply going for the best. Either I want a challenge or I want a hole in one.

I don't like the idea of getting rid of 5th gear unless I had a custom pinion shaft and ring gear that was more like the 3.05 for the older transmissions. That would probably make it easier to incorporate some improvements in keeping the shaft where it needs to be and I would not have a problem spending on that because I would love to only use 1-2-3 in the 1/4.

I will always support and applaud JT or anyone else pushing stock style parts. This is not only rewarding for individuals who find improvements but it keeps the entire platform going. Every platform I have seen that keeps going strong has people improving things that apply to the masses. I know easy ways to make ridiculous power in our cars with a simple engine swap but that alienates the average person that starts with a similar car. I don't want to be the one eyed king. That or I have no faith in our transmissions with a real motor attached.

JT, did you post up a picture of your backup plate damage? The transmission I have apart in the garage won't have any power related damage but its funner to compare real parts then FSM pictures. Doing all the shimming on it bothers me that the transfershaft just kinda chills. Welded the sleeve onto this shaft even though it was not moving like my other one.
Is the plate really bending/flexing or is it as simple as the fasteners or where the fasteners insert being the problem?
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I messed around with the transmission outside and if someone has not mentioned it before, after looking at how the transmission holds things together, I think an easy fix I would do is take a second bearing plate, bore out the holes to avoid 4th gear and the bearing, add some threads, and install it on the opposite side of the bearing support plate. Then I would use a better fastener if needed and clamp this thing much tighter. I know for 3.0 2 bolt mains I found the simplest girdle flex fix to be the best, higher quality DSM headbolts that reach 3-4 threads deeper into the block and not fretting about line honing when I torqued things to 90ft/lb instead of 60.

I think it would be fun to find ways to improve the stock front plate without necessarily even starting over. Welding trusses onto it and finding ways to tie that in with what I would equate to a case extension that would sit the cover out a little farther but have some anchor points for maybe 4 braces that tie into the bellhousing bolts etc. I would try to design this to avoid the need for precision and rely on applying reasonable torque to something that is adjustable. Something as simple as straps torqued down onto long studs that replace the bolts in question. I know my engine block has strength to share in those locations. Heck that system could be done without any internal mods, just steel layer on top of the case cover with some anchor points. Those bellhousing shields many of us should be running could also play along and make things easier.
I have seen some crazy stuff done to Chevy 7.5" 10 bolt diff's where other people just swap in a 9" or a 12 bolt. Weld the axle tubes. Replace crush washer with solid. preload diff cover. Strap type setup that prevents the axle tubes from deflecting. Lower ratio gears. C clip eliminators. I own one and the concepts of improving that tiny diff seems satisfying. Even the simple preload covers they have give me ideas about improving that bearing plate so it can better support the aluminum bearing support plate.

For me, seeing this problems actually makes me excited (borderline twitterpated) after I look at some of the options to improve things. I would hate to have to suffer the problems that every other person has suffered transmission wise because I never knew about them. I believe in the principle of learning history even if humans in general seem terrible at applying lessons from the past. I love that there are other people out there pushing things because it can keep more of us out of trouble and push fixes faster. It would be tough to be a one man R&D machine for a whole platform. I wish some other people with higher power cars would go out and break some stuff (Lengel etc). I know of JT and MockGLHS and myself who have pushed pinion sleeves off and if it was just me I would be lost. My daily driver is simply an octane change away from causing the same damage and I want to do a lot worse things to transmissions then that

[BadAssPerformance]

Top picture is of the nice used one that went in. Bottom pic is of the abused one. Next time the trans was opened the top one looked like the bottom one.

[BadAssPerformance]

I think it would be fun to find ways to improve the stock front plate without necessarily even starting over. Welding trusses onto it and finding ways to tie that in with what I would equate to a case extension that would sit the cover out a little farther but have some anchor points for maybe 4 braces that tie into the bellhousing bolts etc. I would try to design this to avoid the need for precision and rely on applying reasonable torque to something that is adjustable. Something as simple as straps torqued down onto long studs that replace the bolts in question. I know my engine block has strength to share in those locations. Heck that system could be done without any internal mods, just steel layer on top of the case cover with some anchor points.

Yeah there is something to strengthening the bearing plate. I was wondering how much weld I could fill the voids in and not warp it?

Those bellhousing shields many of us should be running could also play along and make things easier.

Having Reeves' nut protector on made me wonder if it actually strengthened that end of the trans, but I think since it is mostly external, probably not much. I think it does not help the far end of the trans in any way.

For me, seeing this problems actually makes me excited (borderline twitterpated) after I look at some of the options to improve things. I would hate to have to suffer the problems that every other person has suffered transmission wise because I never knew about them. I believe in the principle of learning history even if humans in general seem terrible at applying lessons from the past. I love that there are other people out there pushing things because it can keep more of us out of trouble and push fixes faster. It would be tough to be a one man R&D machine for a whole platform. I wish some other people with higher power cars would go out and break some stuff (Lengel etc). I know of JT and MockGLHS and myself who have pushed pinion sleeves off and if it was just me I would be lost. My daily driver is simply an octane change away from causing the same damage and I want to do a lot worse things to transmissions then that

LOL, yeah, I like the fabrication/engineering side too and community sharing is very helpful so we all don't have to R&D it ourselves

For the pinion bearing walk... Add DJ and Tommy to that list, maybe Pat and others too? We caught Tommy's just in time as it started to walk off last fall. Had the trans apart to weld a hole in the case from a diff pin coming out

- - - Updated - - -

Update: Car is ready to go to Mopar Nationals this weekend...

[Pat]

I haven't had the pinion bearing walk issue yet. Last fall, I took the trans apart that served duty in both the black Shadow and the Aries and there was no sign of pinion walk at all. With the abuse that trans took and how I had driven it, I was actually quite surprised it was OK.

[turboshad]

I had one start to walk but didn't make it far when I switched FDs. The next made it far enough to cut out the slinger and just start eating the case when I went for my third FD. The last one I used green bearing retaining compound and when I took it apart this spring it was right where it should be. I don't know if that means it worked or if I just didn't have enough miles but the green stuff holds pretty good.

http://www.useloctite.com/filephotos...ions_Guide.pdf