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Thread: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

  1. #2841
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    What if you machined the flange on the quaife down to the same thickness as the 568 flange? That would move the bolts further away from the case. Use the 568 bolts (I'm assuming you used the 850 ones because of the difference in thicknesses). I'm guessing there is enough to be taken off that it could eliminate the interference.

  2. #2842
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    has anyone put a 45* cut on the splines on the side gear to spread the load instead of it being 90*

  3. #2843
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I'm thinking the same thing as Moparman: If the 568 is holding the power with that thinner ring gear flange, seems like you could machine down the flange on the 850 diff to the same thickness, or just however much it needs to gain clearance.

    Also, it hasn't been mentioned yet, maybe because i dont think it's a major issue anyway, but the passenger side axle on those 850s looks similar to the drivers side in that it is shorter and doesnt have a speed sensor gear on it. Im pretty sure instead of an extension housing they just have a 'flat' bearing and seal retainer. Obviously the 568 never came with one of these, BUT the 604 did and it's already been shown that a 604 piece (namely, the AWD PTU....) can be made to bolt to the 5spd. So, just another piece of the puzzle to consider, but i dont see any real hangups there.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor GLHS60's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    If you think that was good you should see him give a tech session on a pickup tailgate!!

    Thanks
    Randy





    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Thanks DJ. That was a heck of a post.
    Last edited by GLHS60; 07-04-2013 at 11:48 PM. Reason: sp


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  5. #2845
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    What are the chances the side gear pieces could be swapped between the 2 quaiffe diffs? Then you are only working with getting the axles to work with seals, the extension housing, and the length of the axles which would all need to be done anyway.
    “If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

  6. #2846
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    The rest of the axle end is thicker as well so you'd need to machine everything it passes through to the larger size. Still may be a possibility.

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  7. #2847
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    as far as the 850 goes, isnt that a hydro clutch rather a cable clutch? there in lays another issue for swapping over... i think your on the right track JT with the it don't slip, it just gripps... now i know you have seen this, MB knows this as well, there comes a time in the mitsu world where they stop dumping clutch and starts riding clutch... i mean look at the Red Demon, Devin is slipping clutch AND riding the E brake... you know your car makes the power on the big end... its a MPH monster, so i feel your on that right track with a different launching style... try and figure out how to give her a bit less clutch and maybe a bit more air pressure to allow a bit of spin and make up the run from the 330' on...




    or maybe even figure out a way you can preload the drivetrain on the line to reduce the initial shock off the line... you have mentioned a method to me a few times now using a couple more solenoids

  8. #2848
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I have thought about using line locks and another clutch switch that I can modify to work out with my clutch movement on launch (rather then a staging brake). Anyways, with a staging brake it should be easier to slip the clutch because you will already be slipping it at the line instead of trying to find the engagement window each time.

    DJ, are you actually going to run some rainbows here or just go out on a project skipping that part over a small diameter difference. I still have at least 1 stress cracked axle in my possestion, definitely fails at the stress riser at the beginning of the spline.

    Also, since JT just broke the outter, that means you need to deal with the outers as well.

    I still question how hard we are really trying with the dimensions that we already have. I still see a little shock load breaking what we are currently using or something of similar quality and slightly larger.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-06-2013 at 01:52 AM.
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  9. #2849
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    This exact topic has been being discussed on the "Has anyone broken an OBX" thread.

    What about using the axle tube as a torsion spring? Not necessarily making the axle stronger, but rather tougher. So that would protect the axle splines.

  10. #2850
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    What about using the axle tube as a torsion spring?
    Torque steer? Might be a problem with 10-second car torque on slicks? Just a thought, not a strong belief yet.

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  11. #2851
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Well first we just need a vendor to start installing carbon pucks on clutch discs. Carbonetic charges way to much for the very few applications they do support with their "blade" style discs.
    Brent
    GREAT DEPRESSION RACING
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    - Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 Stock 3.0 Junk Motor - 516whp 519wtq 20psi 91 oct built 3.0 stock n/a computer
    1994 Spirit 3.0 - 12.3@113 15 psi - Daily Holset He341 280whp 304ft/lb @10psi
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    1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
    1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE
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    1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TII non IC, T1 31TH
    1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver, 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts, 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag
    1998 Dodge 12v Cummins 47re 4x4 4dr longbed. No fuel plate. Mack plug, AFC & Spring mods. Boost elbow.

  12. #2852
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Torque steer? Might be a problem with 10-second car torque on slicks? Just a thought, not a strong belief yet.
    I really don't think that will be an issue. They would only be acting in that manner at the instant of launch or possibly wheel hop. I don't think this option would work on anything that has "regular" suspension. Solid suspension mounting (Heim joints, pillow ball strut mounts, ect.) would be needed for this to work correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Well first we just need a vendor to start installing carbon pucks on clutch discs. Carbonetic charges way to much for the very few applications they do support with their "blade" style discs.
    I do agree that a carbon clutch would be a great thing and would be a wonderful addition to help prevent axle breakage (and other driveline breakage).

  13. #2853
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I still question how hard we are really trying with the dimensions that we already have. I still see a little shock load breaking what we are currently using or something of similar quality and slightly larger.
    Yep, that's the real trick isn't it? What's the equation to calculate the "jerk" from a torsional impact? Statically, a 1" CM shaft should be good to ~3000ft-lb, but when you smack it hard, that is significantly reduced...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Torque steer? Might be a problem with 10-second car torque on slicks? Just a thought, not a strong belief yet.
    With a good alignment there is not much "torque steer" as much as the LSD fighting for traction left to right each gear

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  14. #2854
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Are you using an equal-length axle setup or long pass side axle?

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  15. #2855
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    DSS uses unequal length... I found that the u-joint yoke is the weak link of the equal length

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  16. #2856
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    I'm thinking the same thing as Moparman: If the 568 is holding the power with that thinner ring gear flange, seems like you could machine down the flange on the 850 diff to the same thickness, or just however much it needs to gain clearance.
    It might work but it would still be tight. The flange on the T850 is still offset even if you machine the bottom portion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    DJ, are you actually going to run some rainbows here or just go out on a project skipping that part over a small diameter difference.
    I'm not sure what you are wanting me to do. You want me to FEA a splined shaft with similar dimensions to the stock pieces?

    Quote Originally Posted by 22shelby View Post
    as far as the 850 goes, isnt that a hydro clutch rather a cable clutch?
    That doesn't seem like a really large hurdle to me and I see allot of benefits to the hydro setup. That could explain why I picked up a Tilton HTOB and some Wilwood MCs at SDAC this year.

  17. #2857
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    That doesn't seem like a really large hurdle to me and I see allot of benefits to the hydro setup. That could explain why I picked up a Tilton HTOB and some Wilwood MCs at SDAC this year.
    larryb built a hydro master cyl setup in 2004-2005 that tucks up under the dash. it was pretty slick. he even had a show and tell piece to pass around.

    the best part about hydro is that you can have a bag of restrictor fittings and make a setup that has a timed release so it can be set to slip a small amount to reduce driveline shock even if you dump it like a crazy baboon.

    dial that in to your setup with a clutch that can handle a bit of slip and watch your axles live.

    Brian

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Well first we just need a vendor to start installing carbon pucks on clutch discs. Carbonetic charges way to much for the very few applications they do support with their "blade" style discs.
    do you know the material needed and a place to get it?

    seems like someone with a press/rivets could one off this stuff on a standard disc thats available.

    Brian

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  18. #2858
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    MY crazy baboon --- just pictured bolting an adjustable shock absorber to the clutch arm to control release speed. *brachiates away*

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  19. #2859
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I've seen it done with the shock from a screened door.

  20. #2860
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Hmmmmmm, all this axle breakage, should stay auto,

    That power on pump gas from Brent, impressive.
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