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Thread: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

  1. #2641
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo2point2's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Nice runs JT!! The mph is getting up there

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Thanks!, now I just need to make it stick and not break, and it will fly! LOL!

    JT
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  3. #2643
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Those vids are awesome JT! April and I felt like we were in the car...btw, you have the best plate ever!
    [FONT="Arial Black"]Paul[/FONT] [B][SIZE="1"]US ARMY INFANTRY VETERAN[/B] 1995 Dodge Stealth R/T White DOHC 5 speed 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Red DOHC 5 speed 1992 Dodge Daytona IROC, Blue TI 5 speed (2) 1992 Dodge Daytona IROC, Red TI auto 1991 Dodge Spirit R/T, Red (project) 1989 Shelby CSX-VNT #382 1989 Dodge Shadow ES, White TI auto 1987 Daytona Shelby Z, White TII 1987 Chrysler T&C wagon, Tan TII auto 1985 Dodge Lancer ES, Bronze TI auto 1982 Wife, White[/SIZE] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Glad you like! MB showed me that if you click the little gear icon umder the video, you can select 1080p HD and kinda/almost see the gauges!

    Yeah, got lucky on the plaet ALMOST had "SHELBY" for the CSX

    JT
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  5. #2645
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Glad you like! MB showed me that if you click the little gear icon umder the video, you can select 1080p HD and kinda/almost see the gauges!

    Yeah, got lucky on the plaet ALMOST had "SHELBY" for the CSX
    Nice vid, where's the camera mounted? Pass window?
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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Yep, suction cup mount to window. The crappy part about GoPro, cant see what the camera see's, but at least its a super wide angle so lots of peripheral

    JT
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  7. #2647
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    JT, it looks to me like the diff/pinion gear failure was due to contamination. If it were a failed tooth, usually it will wipe both gears clean from what I've seen.

    As far the axles, you notice that 99% of the time they snap at the end of the splines. This is due to there being a major stress riser there (wheel hop doesn't help). I think the transition from the spline to the shaft needs to be re-engineered to reduce the stress riser there. I'm not sure any kind of "process" (be it heat treatment, shot peening, chryo, ect) is going to make a difference. MAYBE a change in alloy could help, but I think inherantly it will still fail without a re-design.

    Also, check the alignment of the gear/spline inside of the OBX. There have been instances where the splines aren't cut correctly in the side gear and causes a missalignment. I think mine has that issue as it it tight to get the axle in the transmission without holding your tongue just right.

    For the end plate...I on that I think a change in alloy, and possibly a CNC'd part with strengthening ribs might be in order. I don't know how well carbon fiber would do, but it is SUPER stiff and won't get a memory. My only big concerns are surface defects and chemical breakdown of the resin.

    Oh...and I need 6 of those transmission angels....one for each gear!! LOL

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Yeah, possibly contamination sure there was some reverse bits floating around... happened at the line so thinking if the tooth let go it might not have stripped the whole gear (was less than 1/2)

    axles... yes, just before the splines... did you see the pic of the ductile break next to the brittle break? I was thinking stress riser too, but the last two to break one was at the end of the splines and the other was 1.5mm before the splines.

    OBX... I figured out that you need to tighten the OBX bolts with an axle stub shaft in the OBX to hold it centered. This makes the axles go in easy without issue. I think thats teh purpose of the bellvile washers to hold the splined inserts in position when installed into the trans

    Hmmm... maybe a CF end cover... that would be easy to make.

    JT
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  9. #2649
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    The thickness of the end cover or the bearing support plate (or both) would make for a VERY strong and stiff CF part. Just have to be careful when putting the holes in it for screws, ect. NO overtorquing...NO chipping....NO burs....NO exposed CF(it MUST be sealed to prevent contamination and delamination). After my training a a few weeks I'll be able to give even more insight on how to properly fasten and modify CF and CFRP. Working on the 787 as a manufacturing engineer has its advantages!

  10. #2650
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I understand about treating things and rolling the splines, etc., but honestly I believe we are getting to the limits of these components. If we could increase the length of splines engaged or the thickness of the material, it would be better, but that would require a lot of re-engineering of the diff, case, bearings.....you get the ideas.
    Bryan
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  11. #2651
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    JT, I have been thinking about this a bunch and here's my take as I would also like to find a solution since I'm sure I'll be in the same boat soon. I seem to see way more pass. axles being broken then driver's. So what's the difference? The same torque goes through both and the splines are the same with the same stress risers. The big difference I see is the distance from the spines to the first CV. The further this distance the more bending forces you will see in the shaft from the off axis CV rotation. I think this is why the pass. side seems to break the most and the break of course happens at the point with the largest risers which has been talked about. There is no support, except for the seal which IMO is no support, between the diff and the pass. CV. If there were a bearing there I think it would improve allot as the length of the shaft before the CV would be supported. I have some more ideas but I need to take a look to see if they are possible and it would of course require a few custom pieces. Might be a good winter project.

  12. #2652
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    The thickness of the end cover or the bearing support plate (or both) would make for a VERY strong and stiff CF part. Just have to be careful when putting the holes in it for screws, ect. NO overtorquing...NO chipping....NO burs....NO exposed CF(it MUST be sealed to prevent contamination and delamination). After my training a a few weeks I'll be able to give even more insight on how to properly fasten and modify CF and CFRP. Working on the 787 as a manufacturing engineer has its advantages!
    Keep us posted on your learnings!

    Quote Originally Posted by black86glhs View Post
    I understand about treating things and rolling the splines, etc., but honestly I believe we are getting to the limits of these components. If we could increase the length of splines engaged or the thickness of the material, it would be better, but that would require a lot of re-engineering of the diff, case, bearings.....you get the ideas.
    spline length wont help, but yeah diameter or material should

    However... the same size DSS axles ends lived through DCR/Crawfords Neon and ~1400whp... which leads me to believe there was a heat treat flaw with these, which is one thing DSS mentioned.

    Hell, look at the Driver Side axle that went 200+ passes, textbook example of a "ductile" failure" all twisted and such:



    And the passenger axles all looked like this, textbook example of a "brittle" failure" not even the splines twisted:



    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    There is no support, except for the seal which IMO is no support, between the diff and the pass. CV. If there were a bearing there I think it would improve allot as the length of the shaft before the CV would be supported. I have some more ideas but I need to take a look to see if they are possible and it would of course require a few custom pieces. Might be a good winter project.
    Need to add a bushing in the tail shaft housing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is the reason we never went with the unequil length set-up in the first place, but instead, built a solid half-shaft to keep the forces as equil as possible.

    Bizzare when you think that we are the only ones in the world that I'm aware of that went this route?
    I though the only reason you never went to unequal length was you never broke a u-joint or axle

    JT
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  13. #2653
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Yikes. That pass side axle looks like a file does after you drop it and it breaks. Wow.

  14. #2654
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Here, I'll pat you on the back so your hand won't hurt....LOL.

    JT, I see what your talking about after looking at the pics and didn't know that they have seen power levels that high. If we were willing to spend $3000 an axle, I bet we could get them made and x-rayed and proper treatment. Plus they would start out with a better piece before it is even machined.

    I read it wrong, I thought they were weaker than they are, never mind...LOL.
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  15. #2655
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Earlier transmissions have a bronze bushing in the extension housing.

  16. #2656
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    http://products.asminternational.org...486&trim=false

    http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1.../m/51210030541

    http://www.met-tech.com/fractured-input-shaft.html

    These sites are VERY informative as far as splined shaft failure.

    From what I can tell about the situation wheel hop has a LOT to do with the failure of these shafts as they seem to be failing from fatigue. The material *might* have something to do with it, or the process the material has been through, but it seems to me there are other issues here.

    Even the design isn't *too* horrible, but it could be better. In order to relieve the stress risers of the splines, we'd have to have a larger fillet at the root of the spline, and that would require a custom set of side gears.

    Also, a bending moment can cause this issue, so propper alignment of the shaft is critical. Yes, we have CV joints, but those are still not 100% efficient at keeping the shaft aligned. I think it would be prudent to set the car up in its state of maximum acceleration in static form and make sure the shafts are as aligned as they can be. This will reduce the tendancy for a bending moment to cause a fatigue fracture that way. Also, balancing the assembly is probably a good idea. I don't know what the critical harmonic frequency is, but making sure the components are as balanced as possible will also reduce the risk of fatigue.

    #1 priority should be absolutely getting rid of ANY tendancy toward wheel hop. I think it's time for suspension mods!

    ---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

    http://products.asminternational.org...143&trim=false

    This is good as well....

  17. #2657
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Here....let's just make a CFRP/Ti transaxle case with custom shafts and gears and sequential shift via hydraulic controls! There....near indestructible gearbox with infinite tunability, ultralight-weight, and no more shifter to use...flappy paddles...no more botched shifts!

    http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/gearbox.html

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    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Thanks for the links, I'll check those out.

    I agree, wheep hop doesnt help and I understand fatigue, but think this may not be a case of fatigue...

    The last axle that broke befor eany of that...

    was a brand new stub
    less than 1 mile on it (driven from pits to the line)
    one burnout (hooking the tire as it rolled out of the water was the ONLY pre-stess to the part that broke)
    one launch, crack, only made it a foot down the track, barely broke the staginge beams

    ---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

    that sequential box would work.. heck, I'd just like a Lenco!

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  19. #2659
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    I think there is a FWD Lenco...just don't know if it is transverse, or if it a longitudintal layout like the LH cars.

  20. #2660
    The moderately moderate moderator Turbo Mopar Staff
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

    Whether the whole thing or all the individual parts get balanced would be neat to see. Not sure if it would make the drive any better or if it would just help not breaking them. Either way, I like the idea.
    Bryan
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