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Thread: BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

  1. #1921
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Lol...

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  2. #1922
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Nice JT!! I was using 600lb spring in the rear on race day and still getting a bunch of squat so I'm looking at some 1200lb 6" suckers to help and still be able to not have the back end sky high.

  3. #1923
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skibbe View Post
    I checked my mailbox and the newsletter isn't in there?
    How about now?

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  4. #1924
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    Nice JT!! I was using 600lb spring in the rear on race day and still getting a bunch of squat so I'm looking at some 1200lb 6" suckers to help and still be able to not have the back end sky high.
    Thanks... I'll let ya know how 600 on all 4 corners does for me, our cars prolly weigh similar?

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  5. #1925
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    600s up front should help with lift too since there is less movement for the same loss of reaction force.

  6. #1926
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Well if it dumps 3000lb on a pair of 600lb/in springs at the start line, plus whatever torque the front tires can apply, then yah, it's gonna squat 3 or 4 inches still.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  7. #1927
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    600s up front should help with lift too since there is less movement for the same loss of reaction force.
    Yep, that plus less camber/alignment change thru the launch too

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222 View Post
    Well if it dumps 3000lb on a pair of 600lb/in springs at the start line, plus whatever torque the front tires can apply, then yah, it's gonna squat 3 or 4 inches still.
    Damnit, now I want to put a coupel transducers in there to find out how much is really going there! LOL!

    Also, there is the argument that stiffer is not always better as a stiff (solid) rear merely acts as a fulcrum to lift the front while a softer rear may allow for some energy absorbtion/damping/slowing down of the motion. I do nto think 600 is th erigth number but do think the MP springs (250?) were not enough and it was on the jounce bumpers... so whatever it did slow down got abrubtly upset when it bottomed out

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  8. #1928
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Skibbe's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    How about now?
    My mail system appears to be broken. I ordered a new mailbox and will install it tonight. I'll scan the newsletter once the problem is fixed.
    Mike Skibbe
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  9. #1929
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    LOL... pics are being put into am article which will probably be first viewed in the SDAC-Chicago Newsletter




    For the coil overs and adjsutable rear suspension, I've got a list of part numbers and components and where I got them from for everything used in the build.

    Yes, from 87 stub strut to 98 steel dual pivot. The 87 had energy Suspension bushings while the 89 now has Johnny's PolyBushings in it.

    The freedom of articulation with the dual pivot with PB's is amazing, fully torqued down it can move up and down full travel with almost no force whereas the 87 moved a couple degrees up and down with low force then bound up as it's design dictates.

    Thinking of this and how with the MP 1" lowering spings allowed the LCAs to piont up (K-member attachment lower than ball joint) the stub strut bushings probably took a set (been there since 1997?) which is what allows the low force articulation for a coupel degrees. I recall back to when I put the ES stub bushings on is and you could not easily articulate it anywhere.
    I would have thought that the arms being hard to move would have been a better thing?
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  10. #1930
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Only if they were hard to move from the correct position.

    By design the bushings make them sit level (horizontal) and dude to the lowering springs they were not as noted above, so if anything, before they took a set they were working to lift the vehicle until the bushings took a set

    JT
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  11. #1931
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Only if they were hard to move from the correct position.

    By design the bushings make them sit level (horizontal) and dude to the lowering springs they were not as noted above, so if anything, before they took a set they were working to lift the vehicle until the bushings took a set
    But if you tighten them down when resting on the weight, they are then set at the height per say.
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  12. #1932
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    But if you tighten them down when resting on the weight, they are then set at the height per say.
    Nope, not the stub strut type, at least not with poly bushings. By design, the off-axis of the stub strut compared to the axis of the front bushing force the bushings to the center plane (the plane that goes through both axis) which by design is horizontal. With stock rubber bushings, there may be *some* torsional rate that holds them in place where torqued, but I would susect over time they would settle at horizontalish if unloaded and take a set at ride height like the poly bushings do if loaded. Speaking of which, the k-member and lca's set at rest horizontal even after taking a set fo rso many years.

    With the dual pivot style and stock bushings, they need to be torqued with vehicle weight on them (to center them) as the bushing shave a torsional rate. with poly bushings, you can torque them anywhere as the bushings do not add a torsional rate.

    JT
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  13. #1933
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Just so you know, JT, I've ridden in and driven a car with 450#/in springs with Konis and it was on the very edge of what I could consider "acceptable" for the street. On a long drive you would be feeling it for sure. 600's are going to be ROUGH! I'm also not sure the stock Koni's have enough jounce adjustment to control them. You may have to look at different dampers, or send yours out for revalving (though some have claimed Koni won't/can't do that for our dampers any more).

  14. #1934
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Just so you know, JT, I've ridden in and driven a car with 450#/in springs with Konis and it was on the very edge of what I could consider "acceptable" for the street. On a long drive you would be feeling it for sure. 600's are going to be ROUGH! I'm also not sure the stock Koni's have enough jounce adjustment to control them. You may have to look at different dampers, or send yours out for revalving (though some have claimed Koni won't/can't do that for our dampers any more).
    If Koni can't, there is another company who can rebuild them. Shayne bought my spare set and sent them all out for rebuilding.
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  15. #1935
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Just so you know, JT, I've ridden in and driven a car with 450#/in springs with Konis and it was on the very edge of what I could consider "acceptable" for the street. On a long drive you would be feeling it for sure. 600's are going to be ROUGH! I'm also not sure the stock Koni's have enough jounce adjustment to control them. You may have to look at different dampers, or send yours out for revalving (though some have claimed Koni won't/can't do that for our dampers any more).
    Really?

    For the springs... I made the decision to go this stiff after getting the opportunity to drive an '86 GLHS on 600#/in and konis, with a firm race seat, 1/2 way from LA to Vegas a couple years ago. Being my car outweighs that one by a few hundred lbs it can only be better

    For the dampers... these are not typical KONI's but rather KONI race inserts that are one-way so rebound adjustment only, so if Jounce is off, I'll just have to suck it up, but for the most part, it would have to probably injure me befor I'd care LOL

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  16. #1936
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    proparts usa have the set i got from simon, and they are almost done rebuilding the fronts, after rebuilding they will be put on a shock dyno to check dampening. and for the record, and company that is approved to work on koni's can revalve them for your demands. simple questions like corner weight, unsprung weight (approx) spring length, and spring rate will mean they can revalve for compression and even the rebound range to accomodate a high spring rate. often times if your running a high spring rate with a lighter car you may not need hardly any compression dampening (too much compression dampening plus high spring rate= broken vertebrae), but the flip side is you may not have enough rebound adjustment and may wind up in the upper end of the adjustment or worse incapable of having enough without revalving.

  17. #1937
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    600s and konis in the rear isn't so bad. They are what let me know I needed a rear sway bar, dispite the scoffing from Baker . I have no experience with 600s up front though. My general street setup is 380 up front and 300 in the rear and I've driven to the track many times with 600s in the rear and there really wasn't too much difference in ride. In fact I will be doing it tomorrow again.

  18. #1938
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Deff interested to see how 600's all around are going to work for you JT. As the general concensus (as far as I've found) is that Less in front is More and 800-1000# springs in the rear is what you want (depending on weight). I'm still running the 350# springs in front right now and was going to swap back to the 250# that were in there last year to see what the difference is. Problem is the suspension is so soft right now with the 350# and hiem joints that I can't bring myself around to swapping a softer spring in!

    I'm actually thinking about a stiffer strut instead. Would really like to hit up an autocross as the car has Zip for body roll compared to when I had the 250's with stock crossmember and A-arms With swaybar!

  19. #1939
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by turboshad View Post
    600s and konis in the rear isn't so bad. They are what let me know I needed a rear sway bar, dispite the scoffing from Baker . I have no experience with 600s up front though. My general street setup is 380 up front and 300 in the rear and I've driven to the track many times with 600s in the rear and there really wasn't too much difference in ride. In fact I will be doing it tomorrow again.
    I was scoffing ???? has to be a different Baker

  20. #1940
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    Re: BadAss SRT-Z Update!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    I was scoffing ???? has to be a different Baker
    Bill Baker was giving me a hard time in the parking lot at SDAC when me and JT were installing my rear sway bar. Then I beat him in the autocross and he took it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    As the general concensus (as far as I've found) is that Less in front is More and 800-1000# springs in the rear is what you want (depending on weight).
    The theory I think JT would be going for with more in the front is that for any given load there is less spring compression or vertical displacement. When you launch and the front suspension unloads there will be less body movement with a stiffer spring. This will help control the pitch and some rear weight transfer along with it.

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