no fuel or spark...

[devlish]

i've searched and read as much as i can on the topic, and still no luck. i'm sure by fixing one i'll fix the other. but so far, i can't get the fuel pump to prime, and there is no spark when cranking. worked fine before fixing a small water leak near the thermostat housing. no water leaked anywhere it shouldn't have.

what i've tried so far:
- installed known good fuel pump
- cleaned power module connectors
- tried a known good power module
- tested all fusable links (there is power to all on the firewall side)
- checked all fuses underdash (for S&G's)
- tested ingition voltage (good)
- there is no pwr to either of the small connectors on the coil
- wiggled/cleaned Logic Module connectors
- different HEP
- Tried a known good Logic Module.
- Tried a known good LM with the known good PM

what am i missing?? i think i covered all the bases so far yet still no fuel pump. there has to be something small that i am missing. it's seems so juvenile, but like i said, i've tried just about everything i think.

thanks in advance
-Kurt

[SL#189]

You've probably already checked, but is the rotor turning in the dist.? Won't necessarily explain the fuel pump issue, but could explain the no spark condition if there's no HEP signal. No signal during cranking means the ASD is not turned on...

[turbovanman²]

Well no spark or fuel is telling you the ASD relay isn't being turned on, soooooooooo your missing power to that. I would honestly get a manual and check each power and ground going to the PM and LM's. It sounds like you've lost a main power feed to the computers. Can you get any codes?

[devlish]

yes, rotor is turning while cranking.

as for the power, it seems like the ASD, but all the fusable links tested good. however, i'm sure there is a few extra power wires going to the PM that i might have missed or not tested. i will be out of town for a few days, but will look up and figure out what wires going to the power module need to be tested. i'm assuming that the 2 plugs on the PM have power, do those power lines go into the main harness? or do they get their power externally (direct from battery/ignition?) no codes come u,p the power loss light just stays on constantly. (but it did this also when the motor was running as well)

thanks again

[tvanlant]

here you go:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/ele...tml#enginefeed

[devlish]

thank you very much. monday night i'll be working on this. i looked on the minimopar site, obviously didn't go deep enough though. thanks again. will inform later monday night.

[devlish]

ok, so i read through all that stuff and did all the testing i could, still no luck. here's what i'm coming up with so far

J2: the blue wire has PWR at the power module as well as everywhere else i can find it. i think the J2 is fine.

Z1: i cannot get any PWR at the dk green/black at the power module. (and obviously no where else either)

Ignition Sensor feed wire: I also tested the ASD Feed Line (#5 on the 12pin plug, blue/yellow) and i get no PWR there. telling me the feed is bad from the HEP, however, i've tried 2 different HEPs (one known good, and one fairly new) and i still get no spark.

my only thought now is that the lines from the 2 HEP plugs are not sending the signal all the way to the power module. however, i was unable to trace them tonight (was getting burned out after a long day). does anyone know where those two lines from the HEP go to?? so i can get an ohm meter on there and see if those lines have a break in them or if they make it all the way. that is my only thought right now. is this correct, or do these lines go to the LM & back?? or where do they run. my quick look tonight i couldn't trace them, like said... but maybe a fresh look tomoro night will be better.

this is getting old, really fast!!

any more help would be awesome.

[stereo]

One thing you might want to check is the plastic pieces in the distributor and make sure they're not worn or broken. I'm not sure if that would cause that big of a problem and considering this sounds like a HEP problem, it could have something to do with it. You also might want to check and make sure theres no cut or chewed HEP wires.

[Turbodave]

Kurt, here's what to look for to check continuity of the dist circuit

Gray connector = Dist sync pickup.
Orange wire - Power should show voltage when key is on. Pin 1-23 on logic module.
Black/ Light Blue wire - Signal ground (grounded through the logic module and shared will all the other sensors). Pin 1-25 on logic module.
Tan/Yellow - Signal output. Pin 2-17 on logic module.

Black Connector = Reference pickup.
Orange wire - Power should show voltage when key is on. Pin 1-23 on logic module.
Black/ Light Blue wire - Signal ground (grounded through the logic module and shared will all the other sensors). Pin 1-25 on logic module.
Gray wire - signal output. Pin 1-10 on logic module.

Connector 1 is the red one, 2 is the Blue one.

In the long run all the signal grounds end up leading back to the ground connectors on the fuel rail mounting bolt, so make sure that's hooked up good.

You can also look at the K19 circuit which is the ASD fed from the LM. it comes out pin 1-17 and leads to pin 18 on th power module it's a bark blue wire with a yellow trace. Also connects to the diagnostic connector so yuou could look for voltage there.

[devlish]

One thing you might want to check is the plastic pieces in the distributor and make sure they're not worn or broken.... You also might want to check and make sure theres no cut or chewed HEP wires.

already checked this, but thanks. Disty is new and still looks new as well, wires all look wonderful, no breaks and are not loose or dryrotted.


Dave, thanks much for that info, that will be tonight project i guess. Hopefully this problem will be found quickly. it sucks when this project is so close to complete, and then this happens out of nowhere!! thanks again for the info, i might give you a ring later if need be.

~Kurt

[Turbodave]

Dave, thanks much for that info, that will be tonight project i guess. Hopefully this problem will be found quickly. it sucks when this project is so close to complete, and then this happens out of nowhere!! thanks again for the info, i might give you a ring later if need be.

~Kurt

Give me a yell if you need to Kurt, I'll be around after 7 probably. Worst case I can hook the scanner up and get you some copies of the wiring diagrams.

[devlish]

thanks again, i'll start with the info you gave me for now, and check the continuity of all those wires, and see where that leads me. i'll also double check the ground on the fuel rail. i redid that partially last night where it meets the fire wall, but i'll make sure the fuelrail side is perfect as well. it's a stinger 8ga wire with stinger connectors... but i'll make sure everything is sanded down properly.

[turbovanman²]

I just read you put a new dist in, does one of the vanes/shutter blades have a square hole in it?????????

[tvanlant]

I got a reman distributor from chrysler and it wouldn't work. I finally figured out the style of pickup they give you with the dist won't work for turbo cars. Are you sure the HEPs you have tried are turbo ones?

[Turbodave]

Kurt's car is an 85 so the dist pickup is different than the 86 and newer cars. Not sure if there is a square hole in any of the vanes on the 85 since it uses a goofy rotor with vanes on the bottom of it as well as the one inside the dist.


As far as the fuel rail ground is concerned, the one from the rail to the fire-wall is important, but the one that comes off the injector harness and is bolted to the rail is most important.

[turbovanman²]

Kurt's car is an 85 so the dist pickup is different than the 86 and newer cars. Not sure if there is a square hole in any of the vanes on the 85 since it uses a goofy rotor with vanes on the bottom of it as well as the one inside the dist.


As far as the fuel rail ground is concerned, the one from the rail to the fire-wall is important, but the one that comes off the injector harness and is bolted to the rail is most important.

Thanks, the year wasn't posted,

Agreed, the fuel rail ground is probably the most important one, I have learned that one the hard way,

[devlish]

well, i can add another dedicated ground wire from the inj harness to the firewall easily enough making sure it has a darned good ground! i'll probably make a ground wire from the inj harness to the fuel rail, then over to the firewall. that should eliminate any ground issues in that area at least.

however, the whole motor is pretty well grounded alread via Stinger cable and connectors from the batt/firewall/head/alt., as well as inj rail to firewall. but adding in another inj harness ground can't hurt.

as for the disty, they were both working on the the car, then all of a sudden this happens, & nothing works.

im still thinking its something with the ASD feed wire. becuase the Z1 wire coming right out of the power module has no Pwr output.

[stereo]

Have you checked the wires at the inj. connections. I've had a harness get all chewed up and disconnected all thru there and on the ground connection area on the harness where the ground wires from all the inj. connectors meet and turn to one.

[devlish]

i was just out there for a few mins... Inj Harness looks pretty good. the Ground wire has some bad insulation, but the wire is solid. it tests very good ground on both sides of the plug. going to dig a little deeper very soon. just came in to look at what dave said again. i forgot the printout at work!! so need to drag the lappy to the garage. no biggie.

[devlish]

here are the results of wire tracing...

Dist Plugs:
all 3 wires on both grey and black plugs have continuity on the others ends, as described by TurboDave, both to the Power Module and/or LM as needed. orange wire had power with key ON.

all grounds test out very good with the continuity tester.

the J2 (dk blue) wire has 8.5volts EVERYWHERE we can test it. however, when i jump it with a solid 13v, it makes no difference. so i don't think the 8.5v is the problem either.

the K19 (asd feed) has 13+volts with ignition ON. it has continuity & 13V at all 3 locations.

the Z1 still have no power anywhere.

when we give a direct 12v to the Z1 wire, the fuel pump kicks in.

it makes absolute sense now that the ASD is bad, but this ASD came off of a running car. my question now is... is this Power Module bad now?? is something shorted in the car causing powermodules to burn out?? i'm going to retest this powermodule in the other car tomoro to make sure it is still a good ASD.

any other ideas at this point would be most appreciated!!!

Kurt & Andy
of: www.projectglh.com