60 trim not a good match!!!

[turbovanman²]

I was running a 60 trim T3/T4, stage III turbine and .63 housing, external wastegate and had big time issues. I couldn't hold any type of boost at part throttle or any type of boost except at WOT. 23psi I got surging and building up to WOT, lots of surge. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't hold boost at anything but WOT. I have a pretty good flowing intake and ex setup, my only bottle neck is my 725 cfm IC but even still?

So for sh*ts and giggles, swapped out the 60 trim for a 50 trim and housing I had from an old turbo I blew up, . I love 16valve engines, it took me LESS THAN AN HOUR,

Anyhow HOLY SH*T, total difference, I can hold any amount of boost or throttle opening, it pulls better and cleanly off idle and is way more fun to drive and I don't get that dreaded surge unless at WOT. I didn't get chance to go WOT as traffic and cops everywhere, missed a speeding ticket my mere seconds so will report back when I get to try it.

Anyone have any idea why the 60 trim didn't work? I dont' recall anyone running this size, but lots run the 57 trim.

[Ondonti]

What are the exact specifications of each turbo setup you tried? Wheel, compressor covers, turbine wheel, turbine housing, center section. Condition
What you posted is a big hard to follow regarding that.

What do you mean no surge unless at WOT but you never went WOT?

You also promise you didn't change anything?

[Lotashelbys]

A 50 trim turbo on a TIII is like an awesome combo. Its like they are made for each other. I would say a 50trim t3/t4 with .63 housing and a stage 2 back wheel with an ATP housing and 3" mandrel downpipe of some sort is like the killer combo for a street driven TIII car. For those who want a little more mid and more top then a stage 3 wheel instead of the 2. I have been in a car with the 57 trim and it had a crazy surge at high RPMs as well. So,I say 50 trim all the way

[Turbo224]

50 trim for me!

[BadAssPerformance]

Anyone have any idea why the 60 trim didn't work? I dont' recall anyone running this size, but lots run the 57 trim.

Something is not right... your turbo is very similar to mine except the 60-1 HiFi I run has a different profile although it is the same size. And I ran it on an 8 valve...

What exactly is happening (describe what it is doing) that you are calling surge?

[ShadowBrad]

I ran a T3/T4E .63(Stage 3)/60Trim from Turbonetics on my 2.2L Hybrid, the neon head was a completely stock rebuild.
I was running a stock stratus intake manifold.
A home-made log exhaust mani.
Internal gate, and a 3" full exhaust, no cat, no muffler.
It spooled quite fast, 5psi by 2500rpm and 20psi by 3500rpm, which happened almost instantly.
I would think that a 2.5L TIII would work well with a 60Trim.

-brad

[bansheenut420]

Holset FTW! Would have been a 50 trim otherwise.

[turbovanman²]

What are the exact specifications of each turbo setup you tried? Wheel, compressor covers, turbine wheel, turbine housing, center section. Condition
What you posted is a big hard to follow regarding that.

What do you mean no surge unless at WOT but you never went WOT?

You also promise you didn't change anything?

Something is not right... your turbo is very similar to mine except the 60-1 HiFi I run has a different profile although it is the same size. And I ran it on an 8 valve...

What exactly is happening (describe what it is doing) that you are calling surge?

Garret T04E cover, 60 trim wheel, I can measure it if you guys want and look at the backing plate tag if that helps.

It surges, makes that chatter noise, like a serpent, did it at 23 psi, when going to WOT- it would surge then clean up, wouldn't let me hold boost unless at WOT. So if going up a hill, light throttle, it would give me boost then chatter/surge and drop out-I thought my wastegate setup was no good. I can't make it a clearer than that. Guys also picked it up on the dyno in my video. Maybe it needed the 58mm TB??????????? to keep the air flow up.

Now, it will hold boost at any rpm or throttle angle, night and day difference,

I lied, I couldn't drive it like this, it was undriveable and I was going to damage the turbo if I kept driving it.

[John B]

So, what do you guys think of a 50 trim/.63 stg 2 on an 8 valve?

[tryingbe]

My 60trim is perfect match for me.












































It's a T3 60 trim...

[turbovanman²]

So, what do you guys think of a 50 trim/.63 stg 2 on an 8 valve?

Awesome turbo for an 8 valve too.

[RJ138]

A 50 trim turbo on a TIII is like an awesome combo. Its like they are made for each other. I would say a 50trim t3/t4 with .63 housing and a stage 2 back wheel with an ATP housing and 3" mandrel downpipe of some sort is like the killer combo for a street driven TIII car. For those who want a little more mid and more top then a stage 3 wheel instead of the 2. I have been in a car with the 57 trim and it had a crazy surge at high RPMs as well. So,I say 50 trim all the way

I havn't run into any issues with the 57 trim on my R/T, although I was only running 14 psi. I guess I will find out in a couple weeks when the new set up gets straped down on the dyno.

[turbovanman²]

I havn't run into any issues with the 57 trim on my R/T, although I was only running 14 psi. I guess I will find out in a couple weeks when the new set up gets straped down on the dyno.

Keep us informed.

Does it hold boost at part throttle? any snake type noises during boosting and/or Wot?

[RJ138]

Keep us informed.

Does it hold boost at part throttle? any snake type noises during boosting and/or Wot?

Spool up was kind of late so I can't really recall what part throttle was like. There were no snake type noises during boosting that I recall, but it was only at 14psi. I will hopefully fire the car up tonight and work out what ever kinks and have it on a dyno in the next few weeks.

[Ondonti]

So you are thinking that when you are closing the throttle that the compressor is still moving to much air and the throttle being mostly closed is creating a restriction which makes the turbo surge.
Or what?
That would mean the turbo is just spooling to easily at part throttle?
What makes the 50 trim behave? moving less air at the same boost?

Can you hook a boost gauge up to your turbo or IC piping to measure if it is is higher in the IC piping at part throttle then it is in the intake manifold?

That would prove my stupid guess wrong

[moparzrule]

That would mean the turbo is just spooling to easily at part throttle?

This is typically when surge happens....too large of a compressor for a given turbine. But he already has a stage 3 .63, so pretty much a 60 trim is no good for anything other than a race only vehicle.

[turbovanman²]

So you are thinking that when you are closing the throttle that the compressor is still moving to much air and the throttle being mostly closed is creating a restriction which makes the turbo surge.
Or what?
That would mean the turbo is just spooling to easily at part throttle?
What makes the 50 trim behave? moving less air at the same boost?

Can you hook a boost gauge up to your turbo or IC piping to measure if it is is higher in the IC piping at part throttle then it is in the intake manifold?

That would prove my stupid guess wrong

I think the intake isn't flowing enough air to keep the compressor out of surge, so the bigger TB should help that, if my thinking is correct.

50 trim moves less air and according to Franks maps, its the better turbo, the 60 trim is close to the surge line.

I could do some testing, I have tested before and the it will be higher before the TB due to the throttle blades acting as a big restriction until you hit WOT.

[turbovanman²]

This is typically when surge happens....too large of a compressor for a given turbine. But he already has a stage 3 .63, so pretty much a 60 trim is no good for anything other than a race only vehicle.

Ok, help me out on this, theory wise. So what your saying, is the turbine isn't spinning fast enough, so theres not enough air flow thru the compressor housing to keep it from surging? is that right?

What about running a smaller housing, IE .48 or what about going larger, say .82 like Cliff Ramsdell did? Or I guess, stage II turbine?????

[Ondonti]

No he is saying the opposite.

For every rotation that your stage III turbine wheel turns in that .63 a/r housing, the 60 trim moves a lot more air then the 50 trim.

Your engine is not swallowing it........so pressure is building up and you are surging.

[moparzrule]

Exactly correct Ondonti. The faster the turbine spins the faster the compressor spins making it pump more air....A lot of people told me I would surge running the .48 housing on my super 70, it didn't, but the theory everybody had was correct. Too small of a turbine for such a large compressor, forcing air in when it can't get back out makes boost creep too.
The .82 housing would probably work, but you would probably have one heck of a laggy SOB. Perhaps not on a 16 valve, I guess the only way to know is to try it....if you have nothing better to do simon LOL.