413 Symptoms--Was: Break-in time on fresh 413?

[contraption22]

How many miles should I break in a fresh auto tranny before it can take even small amounts of boost?

[Warren Stramer]

Mike, I built mine, made sure it shifted ok and dropped the hammer. 90 runs later still no problems. (knock on wood). I'm no expert but I really don't see anything to break in. If all the clearences are right and the line pressure is right I say let er eat.

[contraption22]

Thanks for the reply Warren.

The guy that built my trans told me that the reason it is now slipping in 2nd gear is that the seals are new and the 30 miles on the trans was not enough break in time for the seals to seat.

[Warren Stramer]

I would ask him to specify what seals he is refering to. I cannot think of any seals in the 413 trans that need to "seat" IF installed correctly. But again I'm no trans specialist.
Whenever I assemble an automatic trans I exercise the sub assemblies with air pressure to verify proper operation before final assembly.
How high was the line pressure set?

Does it have a manual valve body?

[Speedeuphoria]

no breakin, you may want to drive around some to make sure the gears shift OK. You could change the fluid /filter if it has minor crap in it. 2nd shift slipping, check the kickdown band adjustment.

[glhs875]

Yea, if it's slipping in 2nd something's not right. On a fresh tranny, just make sure it shifts okay, the line pressure is correct, correct fluid level, and if all is good, put the hammer down and bang some gears!!!

[1FastCSX289]

Im no expert, but my father has been in the trans business for 30 years. Ive worked for him for quite a while and helped build and install NUMEROUS performance trans. Take that trans back to the guy and have him fix it. The only thing that needs ANY break in on a tranny are the clutches. I dont immediately stomp on a trans in order to make sure the clutches are good and soaked in trans fluid and it has shifted through all the ranges a few times. But, after a few shifts in each range, its good for a hammering! A good tranny builder will pre-soak the clutches anyways.

Your builder is either ignorant and doesnt know that a tranny needs no break in or he is hoping that a stuck valve in the valve body will free itself and begin to shift OK. If its a seal that is not seated correctly (like a lip seal on an apply piston) its not going to seat correctly no matter how long you run it.

[contraption22]

Thanks guys. I pretty much knew what you were gonna tell me. This sucks.

[1FastCSX289]

Thanks guys. I pretty much knew what you were gonna tell me. This sucks.

Did you have it done at a shop? Its under warranty, right? If it was a backyard dude and you cant get him to fix it, start with a bottle of "lubegard" (red bottle). If its a stuck control valve or something, this might help to free it up. If that doesnt help, you have to narrow it down to a control issue or internal issue (like a lip seal or clutch pack) and go from there. Good luck.

[turbovanman²]

I gotta remember that one to tell my customers,

Bummer dude, hope you get it all worked out.

[contraption22]

Line pressure checked out "ok" im told.

I took the pan down. Purplish burnt fluid came out. I re-adusted the bands, as thats pretty much all i know how to do. I went a little tight on the kickdown band, 2-turns out from torque spec, rather than 2 1/2 turns. I airchecked it as per the FSM instructions, although I don't really know what I'm supposed to be hearing. I heard some hissing, so I am assuming things must be leaking.

For the hell of it i put it back together and took it for a ride.
Felt fine at first, although slow going into reverse. Hit second... firm shift... didnt slip! whoohoo 2nd is back! go into third and it feels like a small parachute opened up. I felt significant drag. Back into 2nd.... slipping.

So from what I can tell... it seems like 2nd gear may not be disengaging. when I go into third, and there are things fighting each other in the trans....
The loser of this battle is whatver is supposed to engage in 2nd gear and release when going into 3rd. It must not be releasing, or releasing fully.

So what causes this? Valvebody problem? Failed seal? Either? Both?

[Vigo]

413s are simple in that you can isolate problems to either the valve body or the 'guts' fairly easily. bands pretty much release themselves as soon as the pressure in the servo eases off, and a clutch pack not releasing quickly probly means a snapring on a return spring popped off, but im not saying thats likely.

i dont have an apply chart in front of me and i dont have it memorized but if you isolate the elements that are in action here itll help determine what the next place to look is.


also, air checking stuff is pretty useless to do yourself if you dont have someone else in person to tell you whats normal. some amount of leakage is normal, considering we're talking air, not liquid, thats sometimes at 180psi depending on your setup, and bands dont really 'clunk' when airchecked like a clutch pack would. so basically trying to diagnose an aircheck over the internet is a complete crapshoot.

best of luck with it, if noone else has got the elements isolated before i get home tomorrow i will post it up.

[Speedeuphoria]

2nd gear the kickdown is on, then shift to 3rd, the kickdown band releases and the front clutch applies. It is a timed shift, meaning that it needs to happen at the same time, which is done by band adjustment(normally).

For the kickdown tighten it all the way down to make sure the band is seated(dont go crazy), then loosen all the way. Then finger tighten it, give a 1/4 turn w/ a 1/4"ratchet, then back off 1.5 turns. The way you did it should be OK, maybe back it off a 1/2 turn and try. Did you hold it still when tightening the lock nut??

Not sure why the band would still be on, is your shifter cable adjusted correctly??

[Racerstev]

After thinking about this some more I'd bet the kickdown release o ring was left off or snagged when he put the piston in. I kinda doubt it's the VB, but a
pressure check would tell you for sure.



Just be sure to wait till it's "broken in"

[contraption22]

Thanks all. The trans will be coming out next week. I will report back with the findings!

[contraption22]

After thinking about this some more I'd bet the kickdown release o ring was left off or snagged when he put the piston in. I kinda doubt it's the VB, but a
pressure check would tell you for sure.

Bingo! Actually it wasn't left off, or snagged. But it was broken. The remnants were crumbly. My guess is it was not replaced, re-used from an old core trans.

[Vigo]

surprisingly, i just put together a 670 for a 96 3.0 van i have, and im having this same problem!! time to go adjust band and hope i dont have to pull the vb for that servo...

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

Huh! How Ya Like That, Sorry To Read Your Problem Mike,but You Took The Time, And Found Out The Problem,funny, You Would Think,and Trust ,guys Know What There Doing ,and R/r The Tranny With New Stuff,but You'll Be Back "terminator" Haha Take Care Mike Jimmy

[Vigo]

well i built this transmission, and i know firsthand how the rings on the servos are the ones that are 'easiest' to forget to replace.. but im hoping mine is a preload issue!