My attempt at a 2.5L version of Blueberry43

[Aries_Turbo]

i posted this over Here as well.

Ok, so I began working on this the other night as I had some spare time.

What I did:

I went over to D-cal and downloaded Rob Lloyd's +40, 3-bar cals for 89 smec cars. One was for a 2.2L T2 and one was the modified 89 T1 2.5L cal. The 2.2L cal was based upon the 2.5L T1 code so all the tables and constants matched up. I compared the two cals and came up with the changes that looked like theyd be the most important fuel wise and messed around with scaling the 2.2L tables till they were pretty close or exact to the 2.5L tables and that gave me a percentage of scaling to scale Blueberry by. I also heard a ways back that the 2.5L needed 17% more fuel than the 2.2L so I had a basis to start with.

I came up with these tables. With each one is a note of the change that I made.

StartingFuelFomEngineTemp - +6%

StartDecayIntoRun - +17%

StartPrimeFuelShot - First point from the left - +2 'clicks' up in D-cal (up arrow), 2nd point from the left - +2 'clicks', 3rd point from left - +1 'click'

FuelPartThrottle - +17%

FuelFullThrottle - +17%

FuelOffThrottle - +17%

FuelBatteryOffset - +10% then: First point from the left - -1 'click', 2nd point from the left - no change, 3rd and 4th point from the left - +1 'click'

ColdEnrichmentFuelCurveA - No changes. I know that Rob's cal changed them significantly but I dont know the extent why and my older cal runs fine without those changes so I left it alone. If it bites me later, I'll change them. Or if I decide to tinker later. Smile

ColdEnrichmentFuelCurveB - No changes. I know that Rob's cal changed them significantly but I dont know the extent why and my older cal runs fine without those changes so I left it alone. If it bites me later, I'll change them. Or if I decide to tinker later. Smile

ColdEnrichmentFuelCurveC - No changes. I know that Rob's cal changed them significantly but I dont know the extent or totally why and my older cal runs fine without those changes so I left it alone. If it bites me later, I'll change them. Or if I decide to tinker later. Smile

PumpingEfficiency - Snagged from a friends cal. His is a 2.5L, 3-bar, +40's, super 60 turbo, large spearco, dyno tuned. stock head with ported exhaust mani and backcut exhaust valves. Close to my current setup but not quite exact.

TransientThrottleEnrich - Left it alone. If the car stumbles on rapid tps changes, ill change them. So far it hasnt.

TransientEnrichMap - Left it alone. If the car stumbles on rapid tps changes, ill change them. So far it hasnt.

Before I made all these changes, I scaled all the tables in the article about converting the injectors to larger ones. 80.7692307692307692307692307692308 was the number I used to scale by. Yeah the decimal places is prolly a bit ridiculous. Smile

Timing changes: I used the tables from my current cal for the most part but kept the added WOT data point.

Results:

Im VERY pleased. I stopped at a gas station for some 93 octane this afternoon, turned the boost down (for safety... plus it was wet out), popped the chip in and the car fired IMMEDIATELY and settled to a nice steady idle. I drove a while to let the car heat back up and it was nice and smooth with all the conditions that I gave it. Transient throttle was nice, part throttle was responsive nice and responsive and the boost came up pretty quickly.

Once I hit a backroad I put the pedal to the floor and the car pulled nicely with no knock indicated with the CEL. I was only at 11psi though instead of the 18-20 that I was running. Im conservative when I make changes so that I dont break stuff. I also tested out the launch limiter. Pretty darn cool! I like it. I built ~3psi when using it too. I didnt launch though cause it would have been worthless with the wet roads.

When I got home I got the wideband palm display out and went for another ride. At idle it slowly adjust the fuel from anywhere from 13.9-15.2:1. At cruise it bounces fast like normal. I didnt check the autocal variables as I didnt have the laptop and I only drove the car for a little while. WOT it was ~11.5:1 till the boost came up to 11psi. Then the A/F dipped slowly from around 4000-6000rpms to ~10.1-10.2:1 so I still have some tuning to do.

I attribute the rich top end to the PumpingEfficiency table that was tuned for a friends car that has a slightly modified head, slightly larger intercooler and a slightly larger turbo.

My setup is:

2.5L JE .020" over, stock head, 92TBI roller cam, stock manifolds, stock T2 turbo with .63a/r exhaust housing, mitsu fuso box truck intercooler, 2.25" intercooler piping, 3" TU swingvalve, 3" exhaust - no cat, dynomax ultraflow 6" welded muffler, +40's, 3-bar map, 255lph walbro.

so those with 2.5L's give this cal a shot. depending on how close/far from stock you are, youll prolly have to take some fuel out of the top end. when I get to drive the car again (they salted the roads today so the k-car is away) I'll street tune the fuel up to about 20psi and post the changes.

Comments and opinions welcome. Those with more experience than me, take a look and lemme know if anything should be changed. Thanks

Brian

[cordes]

That is pretty cool. Glad that you are having sucess with the 2.2 to 2.5 swap. I am thinking about putting a 2.5 in my omni some day, but not this year. Glad to know that there are some others making headway with it.

[Aries_Turbo]

if I were to do the whole car build again, id do 2.2 for piston strength and a little more revs but the 2.5L serves me well. but with the 87LM setup the ease of a 2.5L cal just wasnt there. im glad that this is turning out as well as it is. I prolly wont get the car out again till spring but when spring hits, i can immediately begin tuning... well after i replace some control arm bushings and add alky for high boost tuning.

Brian

[cordes]

if I were to do the whole car build again, id do 2.2 for piston strength and a little more revs but the 2.5L serves me well. but with the 87LM setup the ease of a 2.5L cal just wasnt there. im glad that this is turning out as well as it is. I prolly wont get the car out again till spring but when spring hits, i can immediately begin tuning... well after i replace some control arm bushings and add alky for high boost tuning.

Brian

I can definatly understand what you are saying. The K-car probably moves out pretty well as is since they are so light. I think I will see how my setup this upcoming year does, and go from there.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah they are pretty light but still a little heavier than an omni im pretty sure... prolly less than 100lbs though. it spins the tires pretty good into and partially through third. i could use a taller trans but that can wait till later. I got the two door too so they are even lighter. a bit flexible though. it could use some bracing here and there. oh well. projects, projects, project.

Brian

[Anonymous_User]

Amazing work!! Thanks!! There really hasn't been much for a 2.5 cal for an LM. Now there is!!

I pondered the idea of doing this a while back, but just never got around to it.

Thanks for the work, thanks for posting it for all, and thanks for testing properly!

[Aries_Turbo]

dont speak too soon

I did a cold start a few min ago and it wants some more fuel at startup (its a little cranky till its warm ) so I think im going to change to those 2.5L specific cold enrichment a,b,c tables. Im also going to change parts of the pumping efficiency to the 89T1 2.5L peftbs of Rob's as it doesnt add too much fuel on the top end. I may not get to test the top end it till spring but i'll post the changes and someone can see how it works. I will be able to test the cold starts now though as its going to be cold for a while.

Brian

[Aries_Turbo]

here are some changes and updates for those to try. of course, use at your own risk. I havent tested these other than the first one.

I used some 87 ColdEnrichmentFuelCurveA, B, and C tables from a friends 2.5L cal and checked it with robs. there were some unit changes between the 87 and 89 that I used so I couldnt just copy them in but I made sure that the shape and the values made some sense.

for the PEFTBL i used the values from Robs but had to graph them in manually as the 87 units and the 89 were different as with the ColdEnrichmentFuelCurves. they should be pretty good. I added a little to each of the higher rpm points for safety and if I get some clean dry salt free roads, ill test them.

happy tuning.

Brian

[amcpacer]

That is awesome Brian. I have always wanted to make a super hi performance cal for a 2.5. Actually a 2.5 cal with a G-Bathtub-Head would be so awesome. I have the bathtub head on my 2.5 and I cant seem to find anyone that has a good cal. I am quite new to this turbo dodge stuff, perhaps I will start work on a cal based off of your cal.

By the way how did you sign up at moparchem website. The new member signup does not seem to work. I feel left out.

[Aries_Turbo]

i signed up real soon after geoff remade the site. I dunno how he has the registration setup now. try again.

take a look at an 85 cal to see what the g-head curves look like. there are some on d-cal i think. scale that for a 3-bar map as per moparchem's instructions and then input the values into blueberry either graphically or using a hex editor for the g-head. the hex editor would be the most precise way but manually inputting them as long as you have specific, precise points you work ok too. you adjust them manually anyway as you tune.

Brian

[ShelGame]

That is awesome Brian. I have always wanted to make a super hi performance cal for a 2.5. Actually a 2.5 cal with a G-Bathtub-Head would be so awesome. I have the bathtub head on my 2.5 and I cant seem to find anyone that has a good cal. I am quite new to this turbo dodge stuff, perhaps I will start work on a cal based off of your cal.

By the way how did you sign up at moparchem website. The new member signup does not seem to work. I feel left out.

I've got a couple of cals for G-Headed 2.5's (for SMEC, though - not LM)...

[ShelGame]

snip...

there were some unit changes between the 87 and 89 that I used so I couldnt just copy them in but I made sure that the shape and the values made some sense.

...snip

There weren't actually any unit changes from year to year. The sensor was always the same and was always scaled the same. The issue is - what's the scale? There's some info out there that says the scale should be -200 to 260F, others that it's -60 to 259F. I don't know which is right. So, if you change the scale in my table files to match Geoffs (-200 to 260), then you should be able to line them up correctly.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah thats what I meant.... the person who made the cal set the scale/units and they were different than yours. like 0-100% vs .00-1 for the pumping efficiency table. I guess thats all defined by the table file anyway.

I am somewhat of a newbie at this still.

Brian

[slasky]

Just make sure you get it working up to 27 psi so I can use it on my car.

[Aries_Turbo]

dont you worry scott.

yeah rob, I pulled the cold start from a cal that had the same scale as mine and had the correct values to match that scale.

Brian

[Aries_Turbo]

g-head spark curves for amcpacer.... note, scaled to +40's.... youll have to scale them down for +20's.

EDIT - I fixed a bunch of stuff to the original attempts of this cal and now have something that starts in the cold well and warms up to operating temperature well. delete all the old versions of this cal that I gave you as it has cold start issues.

Brian

[Aries_Turbo]

Heres a much better base version of the cal that I was working on. Its set up for +40's and a 3-bar map on a 2.5L Swirl head. See above for the G-head version.

I fixed a bunch of stuff to the original attempts of this cal and now have something that starts in the cold well and warms up to operating temperature well. delete all the old versions of this cal that I gave you as it has cold start issues.

those using it, lemme know how it performs and obviously, tune and increase the boost slowly as I am not responsible for foolish mistakes in getting all excited and cranking the boost as soon as you put the chip in. Use at your own risk.

Brian

[amcpacer]

Thank You Aries_Turbo! I just downloaded your updated 2.5 swirl head cal. Hopefully I will get to flash it to an eprom this weekend. As soon as I get the new turbo installed I will take it for a drive and let you know how it works.

[Aries_Turbo]

youre welcome. I thought that you wanted a G-head cal?

Brian

[amcpacer]

Oops sorry I meant to say thank you for that G-Head cal! Yes the G-Head cal is the one I downloaded.