2.2 / 2.5 Diesel conversion?

[turbovanman²]

i dont know why those say it wont work. the VW TDI isnt much of a departure from the regular gas engine and it works just fine. use a 2.5L or 2.2L T2 commonblock and some flat top or domed pistons with a shaved head and the VW injection pump setup and it should work well. to replace the glowplugs you can use an inline intake heater setup like some of the newer diesels. that way the injectors go in the cyl (do they do this stock on the VW diesel?).

can you put the 555 internals in the 465 case? or a combo of 555/525 stuff in there?

Brian

The TDI is a big departure from a gas engine.

The torque loads and compression wouldn't do well, I would think. The cranks start to tweak around 4-500hp and the same torque, You would need stronger rods, main girdle and/or 4 bolt mains. I doubt the block and internals could take the constant pounding vs a turbo gas setup.

[Aries_Turbo]

so what are the differences simon?

Brian

[Turbodave]

If our shortblocks can live with 400hp and 400tq on a gas engine, I don't see why they would have a problem with say 200hp and 400tq on a diesel, the engine won't see much RPM, and we all know how much these engines love torque.

[Aries_Turbo]

thats what im thinking. i mean, reeves makes at least 500 and more torque and pounds the piss out of the car and it holds up.

really though naysayer simon i think our engines have what it takes to make a good diesel. beefy rods, fairly hard bearings pretty beefy block and crank and the opportunity to accept a heavy duty forged piston.

Brian

BTW, you wont get better mileage with a 2.5L 16v in a van!

[RoadWarrior222]

The problem ain't the power, it's the PSI the heads have to hold and the pounding from detonation that the bearings have to put up with, in order to make anywhere near that power.

[DeckSetter]

look into old bread vans some of those came with a cummins 4bt (4 cylinder version of the truck engine) with an adapter going to a GM bellhousing pattern.

The 4BT is a rear drive motor and it's a mammoth. It weighs about as much as a big block, it's a 3.9l 4 cylinder. Basically it's the 89-98 12 valve Cummins with 2 cylinders chopped off.

I'm all on the diesel bandwagon in general (heck yeah I'm a Diesel Power subscriber!) but I'm with Simon on this one, totally not worth it. You're going to have to change a LOT to turn one of our 2.2 / 2.5's into an oil burner. You'd probably have to rework the whole combustion chamber and piston shape to make it work, N/A diesels usually have a prechamber, you'd have to find an injector pump to work (preferably manual so you don't have to screw with all the electronics) and find a way to mount it / drive it / time it. Then you've got to get all custom fuel lines made that will hold up to a LOT more pressure than you'll ever see on a gasoline fuel system (a few hundred psi? can't remember on the old manual ones, the new common rail systems are up close to 30,000psi and no, that's not a misprint).

[WVRampage]

A diesel is the way to go but I dont think converting one of our engines would be a good idea.I have seen pics of head that were bunt from detonation on gas,thats how a diesel runs.....Im sure you could get a TDI vw to bolt in.

[turbovanman²]

thats what im thinking. i mean, reeves makes at least 500 and more torque and pounds the piss out of the car and it holds up.

really though naysayer simon i think our engines have what it takes to make a good diesel. beefy rods, fairly hard bearings pretty beefy block and crank and the opportunity to accept a heavy duty forged piston.

Brian

BTW, you wont get better mileage with a 2.5L 16v in a van!

Not a naysayer, I am a realist. A turbo producing 400/400 is totally different to a Diesel producing 400/400. Detonation beats the living crap out of components, hence the huge rods, heavy, beefy blocks. Turbo engines are alot easier on parts and you don't run full boost 24/7, AGain, the Olds 350 diesel was a joke and would explode with ease.


Wanna bet on the MPG my van gets?

The problem ain't the power, it's the PSI the heads have to hold and the pounding from detonation that the bearings have to put up with, in order to make anywhere near that power.

Exactly,

[Aries_Turbo]

the problem is that I dont wanna hear "it cant be done" but what the differences are between something like a TDI (similar motor) and one of our motors.

i mean, what is in a TDI that allows it to take being a diesel. i mean, its not a huge heavy block, its timing/fuel pump is driven off of the timing belt (ie possible donor), it is very similar in design etc.

the thing that is irritating is that it might be reasonable to do but no one has really put the time and research into finding out what can be done to make it possible and yet there are a bunch of negative nancys saying, "the block isnt 1000lbs so its not possible".

simon the 350 is totally different. short stroke, larger bore. already strike one for a diesel.

im not saying go for 400hp, 400ftlbs anyway. it wouldnt even be that kind of power... more like 150ftlbs, 350 tq and 45mpg. still insanely fun.

VW from the factory made 175hp and 300+ftlbs on a TDI Golf and that isnt a huge block and is more like what someone like dave and I would be looking at.

what I wanna see is the crank, the weight of a TDI block, the width and composition of the bearings and the oil pressure. Im pretty sure the head is aluminum.

dave, you up to some research?

Brian

[Frank]

I would research the following....

1. Look at other people's conversions for desiel. This will help you determine what you need to do for compression. You will need to up it, but I don't know how much. I would start by looking at a using similar concepts to the 2.2 HO for head and pistons and expound upon it.
2. Bearing construction. I am sure using better bearings is easy... just which ones and how much better.
3. The rest shouldnt be hard - fuel injectors, fuel, etc.

[Birddog]

SDAC-CL project??

[BadAssPerformance]

Could be... 4x4 diesel Rampage?

[WickedShelby88]

I still like the Idea of a 4BT in my RC. Diesel rampage sounds cool for sure. I'm sure with a big hunk of aluminum and some imagination we could come up with a sweet cylinder head for this diesel insanity.

[Turbodave]

So you guys are thinking of something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge...spagenameZWDVW

With the drivetrain from this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge...QQcmdZViewItem

Gotta love ebay...lol..

[Turbodave]

what I wanna see is the crank, the weight of a TDI block, the width and composition of the bearings and the oil pressure. Im pretty sure the head is aluminum.

dave, you up to some research?

Brian

Couldn't really find any hard info on the VW blocks with a quick search, but a few pictures I saw didn't make it look any beefier than a 2.2. The head has got a very different combustion chamber, that would probably pose the biggest challenge so far. Maybe the VW head would bolt onto our block, if the bore spacing is right it looks about as hard as a hybrid conversion.

[BadAssPerformance]

Hell yeah! That 4x4 is badass!

[turbovanman²]

the problem is that I dont wanna hear "it cant be done" but what the differences are between something like a TDI (similar motor) and one of our motors.

i mean, what is in a TDI that allows it to take being a diesel. i mean, its not a huge heavy block, its timing/fuel pump is driven off of the timing belt (ie possible donor), it is very similar in design etc.

the thing that is irritating is that it might be reasonable to do but no one has really put the time and research into finding out what can be done to make it possible and yet there are a bunch of negative nancys saying, "the block isnt 1000lbs so its not possible".

simon the 350 is totally different. short stroke, larger bore. already strike one for a diesel.

im not saying go for 400hp, 400ftlbs anyway. it wouldnt even be that kind of power... more like 150ftlbs, 350 tq and 45mpg. still insanely fun.

VW from the factory made 175hp and 300+ftlbs on a TDI Golf and that isnt a huge block and is more like what someone like dave and I would be looking at.

what I wanna see is the crank, the weight of a TDI block, the width and composition of the bearings and the oil pressure. Im pretty sure the head is aluminum.

dave, you up to some research?

Brian

Your missing the point on the 350, it was a converted gas engine.

Fine, 150/400, the crank, rods, bearings, block are still going to take a beating.

I don't see the point in spending tons of money to convert our engines over to Diesel and have it blow up. I know we all like projects, but this one I feel is a waste of time. You can find an engine from something else and put it in for less hassle and be reliable. I am entitled to an opinion.

[Aries_Turbo]

i know the 350 was a converted gas engine. who cares. a diesel doesnt have to be a ground up redesign.

you still are missing the point that other engines that are already diesel dont seem to have any more beef down there than ours do.

and a heavy van, lots of power and little self control isnt a waste of time?

Brian

[Turbodave]

Detonation beats the living crap out of components, hence the huge rods, heavy, beefy blocks.

Simon, While I don't own a diesel engine I do know that they do not run on detonation. Diesel fuel ignites due to heat created when the air/fuel charge is pressurized. Diesel also burns slower than gasoline. An engine running on diesel is not the same as 20lb of boost gas engine pinging away on 85 octane.

I do appreciate your viewpoint on the subject and enjoy healthy debates and discussions like this. While I'll probably never convert anything of mine to diesel I do like thinking about it and determining how far from reality such a conversion would be.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, While I don't own a diesel engine I do know that they do not run on detonation. Diesel fuel ignites due to heat created when the air/fuel charge is pressurized. Diesel also burns slower than gasoline. An engine running on diesel is not the same as 20lb of boost gas engine pinging away on 85 octane.

I do appreciate your viewpoint on the subject and enjoy healthy debates and discussions like this. While I'll probably never convert anything of mine to diesel I do like thinking about it and determining how far from reality such a conversion would be.

Ok, my bad on the detonation wording but they the shock wave is much the same, hence the massive rods, heavy pistons and HD blocks-why do you think they sound like there detonating when running? Diesels DO NOT compress the air fuel mixture. The air is ingested and compressed with 20 or more to 1 of compression, this heats up the air, the fuel is then INJECTED into the chamber and BAM, you have power. Call it what you will, its detonation, preignition etc.

I have a diesel and also work on them. Based on my experience, our 2.2 WILL not take it.

Brian, the point is, a converted 350 was a complete failure and couldn't stand the stress, it literally blew itself to pieces.

A fast Minivan isn't a waste of time,