starter motor swap, L-body

[jeff1234]

Hey all, I'm swapping in an A523 into my "85" Charger and I read somewhere that you need to use a newer starter because of the way they bolt on to the bell housing. I know I have seen this before but I cant find it. Can someone help?
thanks, jeff1234

[GLHS592]

I don't know about a 523 in a Charger. I am using the stock starter in my 520 equiped Charger. I had to buy a couple nuts and bolts to make it work.

[turbovanman²]

Nope, all 2.2/2.5 starters interchange. Some are bolted up differently but can be made to work, not a big deal. A good starter to get is the smaller gear reduction Nippo starter,

[jeff1234]

Kevin and Simon, Thanks for the reply. I have my regular 85 starter and two starters from 89 or 90 turbo vans. I assume these are the gear reduction starters mentioned. Is this correct? If so, I will have them checked out to verify that they work and then install one of them.
As an aside, I just got the transaxle out of my Charger. I recently ran the car hard and it stopped moving forward. I speculated that I had broken the input shaft, but had heard no mechanical noises. What I found was interesting. The disk material facing the pressure plate had totally disintegrated into furry fibers. There was no solid material, no chunks in the bell housing, nothing. Ive been around cars awhile, but I've never seen that. Anyway, it is what it is so I thought I would pass it along. The only symptom preceeding this failure was clutch slippage when changing to higher gears under power, for example a very rapid shift between first and second and so on. It was a mystery for a period of time, but no longer. The pressure plate was made in Korea, the disk had no markings. Junk!!
jeff1234

[turbovanman²]

The Nippo is small, no paint and looks like it belongs in a Honda, it also has the solenoid tucked down block side with its own heat shield. The Bosch unit is black and looks like a small block Chevy starter with the solenoid on top that gets nuked by the turbo.

Yeah, seen that happen before, its usually caused by abuse or just plain worn out.

[jeff1234]

Simon, As long as I have the trans out, should I replace the rear main seal? The engine has 116000 miles on it but doesn't show any signs of leakage or damage.
jeff1234

[2.216VTurbo]

Simon, As long as I have the trans out, should I replace the rear main seal? The engine has 116000 miles on it but doesn't show any signs of leakage or damage.
jeff1234

Yeah< I've done that 'as long as it's out replace the seal' trick. You know what happened?? It leaked like a sieve after that! May work for others but not for me.

Talked to my brother (who spent years reparing parking lot sweeper trucks that have about 100 the 'main seal' style seals on them) about it and he said if the area where the seal is riding on the shaft is grooved (aren't they all after any kind of miles) do not let the new seal line up in that old groove, insert it a little less (or more if possible) so that it rides on virgin metal. My brother knows some stuff too bad he is a 5X a day stoner

[Clay]

I replaced the rear main seal in my GLHT when I had the trans out. Ive never had any issues, but it was a bugger to get back together. Just be sure you use some anaerobic sealer on everything before you put it back together.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, As long as I have the trans out, should I replace the rear main seal? The engine has 116000 miles on it but doesn't show any signs of leakage or damage.
jeff1234

I would say yes, as you know Murhpy and his damn Law,

[Force Fed Mopar]

Real early starters Had all the bolts/nuts go on from the back side, had to be under the car to remove them pretty much. I think they stopped that in '85 or '86. The old starters do work on the newer trannies though, w/ a bit of work (installing the stud, threading the top hole etc)

[Turbodave]

Real early starters Had all the bolts/nuts go on from the back side, had to be under the car to remove them pretty much. I think they stopped that in '85 or '86. The old starters do work on the newer trannies though, w/ a bit of work (installing the stud, threading the top hole etc)

Exactly, the 85 and older transmissions had threaded holes where the starter attaches and all the starter bolts came through from the backside, a pain to get to.

The 86 and newer transmissions had non-threaded holes and the starter itself was threaded for a bolt and a stud coming in from the tranny side and just one bolt coming though on the back into the trans. It's a lot nicer putting a starter into an 86up vehicle.

You can easily use an 85 starter with a newer trans, just need to use a bolt with a nut on the end for the top two fasteners. That's what I've done on my GLH-T.

[jeff1234]

Hello All. Thanks so very much for all of your responses. You guys are awesome. At this point, based on your advise, my decision is to leave well enough alone. Here's my thinking: 1) I looked the seal area over, I had just replaced the pan gasket without realizing that the rear seal housing would be involved. (did the pan before the t-axle was out.) It looks as though I would need to remove the pan again. 2) I'm somewhat lazy when faced with re-work, LOL! 3) Wear on the crank journal where the seal rides is unavoidable, so the possibility of poor sealing in that area exists. 4) If it leaks, I will throw some seal repair chemicals in the pan. I have actually had sucess in this area with a 93 Villager that I owned. It didn't stop leaking immmediately, but stopped completely by about 5000 miles.
So there yah go, done deal, thanks again. jeff1234

[turbovanman²]

You don't need to remove the retainer to replace the rear main seal. I have never seen a groove worn enough to cause a leak and most aftermarket seals are made slightly differently to prevent a leak from small grooves.

[johnl]

As I recall, on my 85 GLHT, when I swapped out the big mopar starter for the smaller later starter, I had to drill out the threads in the hole in the bell housing. That is, with the old starter the bolt came through the flange in the starter and threaded into the bellhousing. With the later starter it is the reverse, the bolt comes through from the outside of the bellhousing (under the air box side) and threads into the starter. There was no room for an electric drill motor to get down there so I used a right angle die grinder. So, I lied, I really didn't drill the threads out.

[jeff1234]

JohnL, hmmmmm, I wonder what you meant by that? LOL
Simon, Thanks, Now I believe I will replace that seal, if it can be changed without removing the retainer. I have always done that on any other car I have had, but like I said, I'm lazy when it comes to rework. Viola!! this isn't rework, so I give myself permission to do the change. Aint life grand?
jeff1234

[jeff1234]

Hey all, The seal change was a no brainer. Just as was stated, the retainer doesnt have to come off.
jeff1234