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Thread: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

  1. #1
    Hot Certified Christians at TD! Turbo Mopar Staff Directconnection's Avatar
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    Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    This is a cut and paste from an email last year that I sent to Barrry at SDAC, which later appeared in one of the SDAC newsletters:

    *** Stock G-head *** (intake ports only)

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 46.2 45.2 44.2 46.6
    .200 93.2 94.2 92.7 93.7
    .300 128.1 126 128.8 125.7
    .400 150.5 147.9 151 148.4
    .500 161.5 160.6 160.6 162.2




    ***Stock G-head w/stock 1-pc Intake***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 44.1 45.4 44.3 45.2
    .200 85.2 87.3 84.6 87.3
    .300 108.9 109.9 108.5 112
    .400 121.5 122.5 119.7 123.9



    ***Stock G-head w/ stock 2-pc Intake***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 49.4 50 45.2 45.4
    .200 89 88.2 86.5 86.7
    .300 113.4 111.3 111.3 109.2
    .400 126 123.9 120.4 119.7
    .500 133.7 130.9 125.3 124.6


    ***Stock G-head w/mildly modded 1-pc Intake***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 49.7 49.7 43 45.1
    .200 88 89.5 83.9 86.5
    .300 110.6 112.7 107.8 112.7
    .400 122.5 123.9 119.7 125.3
    .500 130.2 128.8 125.3 132.3



    ***Stock G-head w/mildly modded 2-pc Intake***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 49.4 50.4 44 45.2
    .200 89 89 88.2 85.8
    .300 114.8 113.4 112 110.6
    .400 128.8 126.7 123.2 119.7
    .500 136.5 134.4 128.8 125.3



    ***Stock G-head w/stock 2-pc lower half only***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 46.1 50.5 45.4 46.6
    .200 88.3 90.8 90.3 90.5
    .300 116.9 117.6 117.6 119.7
    .400 132.4 131.7 129.6 130.3
    .500 144.4 142.6 137.3 139.1


    ***Stock G-head w/mildly ported 2-pc lower half only***

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 46.5 51.2 45.3 46.4
    .200 89.8 92.3 90.5 91
    .300 119.7 120.4 119.7 119
    .400 135.2 135.2 131.7 131
    .500 147.9 146.1 140 140.8



    ***********Stock 1pc Intake Flow Losses*************

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 2.1 +0.2 +0.1 1.4
    .200 8 6.9 8.1 6.4
    .300 19.2 16.1 20.3 13.7
    .400 29 25.4 31.3 24.5
    .500 32.3 31.8 35.3 32

    ****Stock 2pc Intake Flow Losses****

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 +3.2 +4.8 +1.0 1.2
    .200 4.2 6.0 6.2 7
    .300 14.7 14.7 17.5 16.5
    .400 24.5 24 30.6 28.7
    .500 27.8 29.7 35.3 37.6


    ****Mildly modded 1-pc intake Flow Losses****

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 +3.5 +4.5 1.2 1.5
    .200 5.2 4.7 8.8 7.2
    .300 17.5 13.3 21 13
    .400 28 24 31.3 23.1
    .500 31.3 31.8 35.3 29.9


    ****Mildly modded 2-pc intake Flow Losses****

    #1 #2 #3 #4

    .100 +3.2 +5.2 0.2 1.4
    .200 4.2 5.2 4.5 7.9
    .300 13.3 12.6 16.8 15.1
    .400 21.7 21.2 27.8 28.7
    .500 25 26.2 31.8 36.9


    That's it!!!! Probably should find the flow losses for the 2-pc lower halves as well as you can see that a large majority of the intake's flow losses appears to occur in the runners of these intakes...not the plenum and it's 90 degree elbow at the TB. Also, the "+" numbers in the flow loss charts represent flow GAINS when the intake is bolted on the head. It seems that very low lift flow is increased when the intake is bolted on.

    For the cylinder head tests... I calibrated the bench before use, and I used the temperature correction factor I told you about earlier to keep things on a more level playing field. (as well as running leakage tests) I did this on every port and every lift # on every single test. On the head alone, I made my own inlet guide. I tested it against the ever popular clay inlet guide(s) of the old school variety and it appeard right on. I tested it w/out either and there was an actual cfm loss w/out it. I forget the exact #, but it was around a 7-10 cfm loss.

    For the intake testing, I blocked off every vacuum port, injector boss, etc... in the head and left all the valves closed to block off all the cylinders being tested excpet for the ones... actually being tested. I made sure the valves would seal good, so for added insurance, I used a bit of light grease on the 45 degree seats. For the entrance to the plenum of each intake, I bolted on a special large radiused inlet guide that bolted in place of the stock TB.

    The intakes in question: The mildly moddified 1 and 2 piece intakes are pretty much just that. I welded the backsides of the runners where the indentations are for the bolts that clamp the manifold to the head. Internally, I removed the "humps" and then re-drilled and counterbored the are for use of socket head cap screws in place of the normal bolts. The 1-pc actuall had the TB area opened up for a 52mm TB, where the 2-pc upper was untouched. You can see from the flow tests that on both intakes, there's only a couple cfm advantage of doing this mod. Oh well... a couple cfm here...a couple there....

    ************************************************** *****

    UPDATE: a few months ago, I ported the lower half of one of my 2-piece intakes fully. Put darn close to 35-40 hours into it doing it through breaks and my lunch hour (why it took longer than normal). I bolted the stock intake bottom half to a ported test head that flowed a little over 180cfm on the intake at .500" The stocker lost 29 cfm on the ported head vs low 20s on a stock head. I swapped out the stock bottom for my new ported bottom and my flow losses went from 29 cfm, down to only 13cfm. In the next few weeks, I will be doing the top half and plenum area fully with alot of new ideas implemented (ie: tricks) and from what I have been told/learned, I should be able to drop the flow losses even further. I got rid of my flow losses in the exhaust manifold (to the tune of 11-17 cfm gains... posted info in the exhaust section just now) and getting the intake side down would be great.
    Last edited by Directconnection; 06-15-2007 at 10:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

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  2. #2
    Hot Certified Christians at TD! Turbo Mopar Staff Directconnection's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Sorry if the cfm #s meshed too closely w/out spaces. Can't get it to have spaces here, yet in edit, it is spaced out perfectly. Hmmm...

    Frank... got graphs?
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

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    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Thanks for posting them up on the site. The article in Up Front was a great read.

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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Your time and effort to get hard data on things too often speculated on, is greatly appreciated.
    John Laing

    "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle."
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Quote Originally Posted by johnl View Post
    Your time and effort to get hard data on things too often speculated on, is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks for the compliment. John.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Nice work Steve

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    Hybrid booster NeonShowCar's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Great Information Steve!

    Data like this should be on Franks Knowledge page, that he started putting together.

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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    I am sure it will be. Frank is working on graphing the info and I am hoping it will have a certain place in the KC. Probably be nice if titled Factual Data (5d reference ) where people compile.... just that, and is seperate from how to's and model descriptions, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

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    Hybrid booster NeonShowCar's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    I am sure it will be. Frank is working on graphing the info and I am hoping it will have a certain place in the KC. Probably be nice if titled Factual Data (5d reference ) where people compile.... just that, and is seperate from how to's and model descriptions, etc.
    Great to hear - would be nice to have all of the data in on location.

    (5d reference)? Your not talking about who I think you are - are you?

  10. #10
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    For the intake numbers since there is so many, do you care if I do graphs that have are averaged across the board, or if they look at only cylinder one?


    Thanks!
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Can't be only one cylinder since the runners have different flow rates from cylinder to cylinder and 1 piece to 2 piece.

    Average or just .500 lift cfm #s. If average... don't forget that at .100" some runners picked up a tad bit of flow instead of losing. I put the + in there for those.

    And don't forget... intake runners #4 were flowed on G head intake runner #4 and intake runner #3 flowed on g head runner #3 etc... so the match for each intake # needs to correspond with the cylinder head # it was tested on.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

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  12. #12
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Well doing 8 graphs is a lot of work.... here is cylinder #1 graphs


    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    bump for the visuals
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  14. #14

    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Very helpful. I'd be interested to see how my new plenum on top of a very worked lower piece would do. Maybe I should do that one day.

  15. #15
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Looks good Frank. Typo in the first graphic though, Missing the P from comparison.

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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Wondering if anyone is working on some ways to even out the flow between cylinders. Funny to me that the stocker 1 pc had the most even flow.....
    Not sure if big flow in only 2 cylinders is worth a small total gain.

    I know you said the plenum doesnt seem to be a huge flow issue but I would think a better plenum would help the uneven cylinder numbers.

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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I know you said the plenum doesnt seem to be a huge flow issue but I would think a better plenum would help the uneven cylinder numbers.


    Bingo.

  18. #18
    Heroes never die, they just reload! Turbo Mopar Staff Frank's Avatar
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    Only if the inlet tube is in the right location. You can make the plenum big all you want, but if the plenum doesn't supply the air properly AND isn't proportional to the plenum, there isnt going to be good flow balance.


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  19. #19
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    Re: Intake manifold(s) flowtest results

    good thing I used the word better and not bigger so the police dont jump all over me.

    but bigger will still help

    With my own little project I feel very confident in that. Ive seen some people build big plenums but they still look like they would have charg robbing problems because there is not enough clearance around then runners to allow them to get a "full breath".........thats why I dont like when people weld a round tube onto the runners as that brings the walls to close to the runners and doesnt add volune where it is needed.
    You can have a big old tube welded on for a plenum but all that volume with runners still choking is pointless.


    People need flat floors and distance between the walls and the runners (cant remember the ratio needed off the top of my head and Im not at home).
    OR velocity stacks that stick up into the plenum and make sure the runner is not near any walls or having charge robbing problems.

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