A413 buildup help

[tvanlant]

I started a thread a while ago about putting an automatic in my GLHS, but most recommended that I stick with the manual transmission. But after talking to my friend (who owns a performance transmission and converter shop), I think I'm going to do the A413, mainly because he wants to do this, and will do everything for free.
I'm not very familiar with the 413 because I have never dealt with one, so correct me if I'm wrong and please give your suggestions.
Here is what I have planned so far:

Get a 87-up transmission from the J-yard
Use a 96-up differential for the larger bearing
(Q1.) Get a TurboAction reverse manual valve body (anyone have the part #?)
I was going to try the OBX, but its too expensive plus the spacer and case grinding, so I think I'll start out with Omni-Potents' LSD inserts.
(Q2.) Will these inserts fit into the 96-up differential?
(Q3.) My friend already has a shift kit for the 670 trans, so I'm assuming it will work for a 413?
Do most of the modifications on DblTrbl's site

More questions....
(Q4.) I've got an A555 in the glhs now, so I've got the L-body center hump for the shifter cut out. When getting a shifter, should I get one from another L-body, or should I get one out of a daytona or shadow or something?
(Q5.) I'd like to use a lock-up converter. My friend suggested running the lock-up off a switch, that way I could lock the converter midway through 3rd gear during racing, and lock it for highway cruising. I've heard some people say that these converters won't be able to lock up if under WOT, true? I was going to use a turbo car converter and have my friend do his stuff to it and make it stall a little higher.
(Q6.) What gears should I use? I was thinking the .91 transfer gear and the 3.05 ring to make a 2.78 final. Is this a good choice for a charger? I will be running 205 50 BFG drag radials. I'm running high 12s right now at around 108 mph, but will be going bigger and badder after the trans project is done. I'm hoping for maybe low 12s or high 11s in the future.

Some more info..
My car is not a daily driver anymore, but will get driven and raced on the street quite frequently, and will be driven to the track alot (2 hour drive).

Please feel free to give your input and opinions about anything, because at this point I'm not really sure what I'm getting into .

[Speedeuphoria]

Q1,Q5,Q3: the turbo action VB is what most run, but it doesn't support lockup. Also most of the TD cases dont either. So you have to find non turbo trans or 91+ turbo trans could have lockup AFAIK. SO you can either use the stock VB w/ mods and the lockup or my suggestion it to geto one from "Torqueflite" on here, I got mine from him and its solid . He can setup one w/ lockup and reverse manual(only person that can). Now you are correct that the stock lockup converter cant take the abuse on the track, so call Pat's Converters and he makes a Kevlar L/U converter to whatever stall you want and has been used in a 9.7@150mph 1/4 mile neon. You will need the L/U input shaft as they are specific to converter. You wont need the "shift kit unless you keep the stock VB, then you will have to play around w/ shift points ect..

Q2: same basic diff, just the one bearing is larger and you need the housing/race to match

Q6 if you have L/U you could use a little more gear since you can lockup on the top end.

A rebuild kit is like $80 and has most of the things you need except for bearings and some misc things. The expensive stuff is the VB,Converter, OBX and stronger inputshaft(if needed, only for non lockup)
Thats all for now, these trans are easy to work on for the most part. Get an ATSG if you dont have a FSM w/ info on the trans. Do some more reading and searching and you'll find all the answers your looking for.

[tvanlant]

Thanks for the great info.

So practically, my converter options are go non-lockup or get the valve body from Torqueflite and the kevlar converter. I would like the lock-up, but how much is this going to cost me? My friend is a "converter specialist", so would he be able to make a converter than can lock under power, or is that something that needs to be custom made? How much would I really benefit from the lock up?

You say I might need a stronger input shaft. Is the lockup or non-lockup the one that is weak and needs upgrading?

What gears do you think I should go if I went with a lockup setup? What gears if I went non-lockup?

[turbovanman²]

I remember reading that someone used a lock up converter and with it on or off, made no difference. I would not use one for that reason plus there heavier and I would assume that the input shaft is hollow, its weaker.

Not sure but around 4-500hp, you need the stronger input shaft.

I really am not a fan of AB type inserts

Don't waste money on a shift kit, just use the mods Carl lists.

I would go with the stock 3.05 gears and maybe .91 transfer gears or higher as turbo cars like tall gears.

[Vigo]

my .02

go with the 2.78 to start. its perfect for your tire size and weight imo.

if you dont want to pay for the reverse pattern valve body, you can convert the stocker to manual only and just use a ratcheting shifter. slightly more cumbersome but could be cheaper if you can get a shifter for cheap.

the newer trannies that have the bigger diff bearing also usually have the drums that hold more clutches and the 5-pinion planets iirc so if you can get a good core you could knock out a few birds with one stone.

[tvanlant]

I remember reading that someone used a lock up converter and with it on or off, made no difference. I would not use one for that reason plus there heavier and I would assume that the input shaft is hollow, its weaker.

Not sure but around 4-500hp, you need the stronger input shaft.

I really am not a fan of AB type inserts

Don't waste money on a shift kit, just use the mods Carl lists.

I would go with the stock 3.05 gears and maybe .91 transfer gears or higher as turbo cars like tall gears.

Well, if the lockup feature isn't well worth the work, I think I'll just stick with the ease of a non-lockup setup.
Why not a fan of the inserts? Is the OBX worth the money, + the cost of the spacer, plus the extra work?

My friend is going to give me the shift kit for free, so should I use it? Why if using a manual valve body should I not worry about a shift kit?

my .02

go with the 2.78 to start. its perfect for your tire size and weight imo.

if you dont want to pay for the reverse pattern valve body, you can convert the stocker to manual only and just use a ratcheting shifter. slightly more cumbersome but could be cheaper if you can get a shifter for cheap.

the newer trannies that have the bigger diff bearing also usually have the drums that hold more clutches and the 5-pinion planets iirc so if you can get a good core you could knock out a few birds with one stone.

I don't mind paying the $180 for a Turbo Action valve body and using the stock shifter.

When you say "new style trannies", what years are you talking about? I know the 96-up have the better diff, but what year trans should I look for to get the best of everything? I need a turbo trans to start off with, correct? So when I'm at the j-yard, should I get a 89-up turbo trans and a 96-up trans? Or is there one trans that will have all of the good stuff?

[turbovanman²]

Well, if the lockup feature isn't well worth the work, I think I'll just stick with the ease of a non-lockup setup.
Why not a fan of the inserts? Is the OBX worth the money, + the cost of the spacer, plus the extra work?

My friend is going to give me the shift kit for free, so should I use it? Why if using a manual valve body should I not worry about a shift kit?

The RMVB already has the mods, nothing needs to be done to it. You only need mods done to a stock VB.

Inserts don't work, I used one and did peg leg burnouts then diff went boom. If your building a track only car, an OBX or similiar is totally worth the extra cost and its not really that expensive.

I don't mind paying the $180 for a Turbo Action valve body and using the stock shifter.

When you say "new style trannies", what years are you talking about? I know the 96-up have the better diff, but what year trans should I look for to get the best of everything? I need a turbo trans to start off with, correct? So when I'm at the j-yard, should I get a 89-up turbo trans and a 96-up trans? Or is there one trans that will have all of the good stuff?

96 and up is Neon case so you still need a 89 and up TD case and guts. Better off just get a turbo trans and update it, cheaper and easier or if you get both for cheap, then get both. The larger bearing is a plus but so far, mine hasn't given me any trouble. I also have how to add more clutche's in the FAQ section, don't get the Alto kit.

I forgot to add, weld up the planetary pins, they will break loose if you don't do it.

[tvanlant]

Thanks for the info. When I go to the scrap yard, I'll try to pull an 89 and up turbo TD trans and a 97 neon trans. Does it matter DOHC neon or SOHC?

Why don't the inserts work? I don't mind the price of the OBX, but the price of the spacer bothers me. Where did you get yours and how much did it cost? Also, how much modification was needed to make the OBX work in the 413 case?

[Keito]

RMVB

Summit Racing Equipment # TAC-14156N
$179.69

Jegs # 912-1415N
$174.99

Now I need to come up with the funds to buy mine.

[Speedeuphoria]

Does it matter DOHC neon or SOHC?

just the gearing is different, just transfer gears I think.

You can get any older dodge a413, the neon will have the guts that swap right in(same as turbo trans). If you find a 00+ neon trans it will have the same guts and also have the newer style pump that will swap. Simon has one last I knew and they should be a little more efficient.

Another thing that I was unaware of that DBLTRBL, Carl posted on TD.com
"Also, the Neon overrunning clutch cam assembly (Sprag) has bolts instead of rivets on the older TD ones. I think the bolts are stonger. I've seen the rivets shear"

[tvanlant]

Thanks guys.

So pretty much, I will be using everything from the neon trans and just using the case from the TD. So I won't even need a turbo TD trans, right? Just any old trans with the 2.2/2.5 bellhousing?

So as of now... it is looking like this:

leaning towards OBX and not inserts
TD case w/ Neon guts
2.78 gears
non-lockup converter
l-body shifter setup
Turbo-action rmvb

I was reading on people who used to make ring gear spacers for the OBX for really cheap, but it doesn't seem that anyone is making them anymore. Is anyone still doing them? or where should I look to get one?

[Vigo]

yep, any old tbi 413 case like i have.. 4 of laying around. i only have one newer 2.4 with the goodies but havent done anything with it yet.

and imo, the obx is infinitely better thanan insert... however, you do have some mitigating circumstances: your car is light. inserts work better in light cars. you have street tires. spinning both street tires on a light car doesnt stress the insert near as much as spinning two slicks.

so do what you will but you should know that no one is complaining about their OBX and that inserts have a reputation for a reason.. people using them with tall slicks in heavy cars with huge low-rpm power only accounts for some of it!

[tvanlant]

Well, if I can find a ring gear spacer for a decent price, I'll go the OBX route and not risk it with the inserts.

Would you be willing to sell/ship a TD case?

[turbovanman²]

Thanks for the info. When I go to the scrap yard, I'll try to pull an 89 and up turbo TD trans and a 97 neon trans. Does it matter DOHC neon or SOHC?

Why don't the inserts work? I don't mind the price of the OBX, but the price of the spacer bothers me. Where did you get yours and how much did it cost? Also, how much modification was needed to make the OBX work in the 413 case?

Well on the street, an insert is fine but add slicks and you can/will be doing peg leg burnouts, if you do enough, the spider gears weld to the shaft and diff goes boom.

I used an AB insert with the strongest springs in my van. IN all honesty, if I wasn't drag racing, I would stick with the insert, it worked well enough for the street.

I have an FAQ on installing the OBX, its not that hard, some case grinding and some diff shimming for preload.

just the gearing is different, just transfer gears I think.

You can get any older dodge a413, the neon will have the guts that swap right in(same as turbo trans). If you find a 00+ neon trans it will have the same guts and also have the newer style pump that will swap. Simon has one last I knew and they should be a little more efficient.

Another thing that I was unaware of that DBLTRBL, Carl posted on TD.com
"Also, the Neon overrunning clutch cam assembly (Sprag) has bolts instead of rivets on the older TD ones. I think the bolts are stonger. I've seen the rivets shear"

Thats great info,

Thanks guys.

So pretty much, I will be using everything from the neon trans and just using the case from the TD. So I won't even need a turbo TD trans, right? Just any old trans with the 2.2/2.5 bellhousing?

So as of now... it is looking like this:

leaning towards OBX and not inserts
TD case w/ Neon guts
2.78 gears
non-lockup converter
l-body shifter setup
Turbo-action rmvb

I was reading on people who used to make ring gear spacers for the OBX for really cheap, but it doesn't seem that anyone is making them anymore. Is anyone still doing them? or where should I look to get one?

Frank is looking at making some, if he isn't, I am. Otherwise Cindy is your only other source.

[tvanlant]

Ok. Obx it is then.
I emailed James Nemo (james_13021 on td.com) because he was making the spacers a few months ago.
He replied and has them for a very decent price. Would this be a good route to go?

[tvanlant]

I have an FAQ on installing the OBX, its not that hard, some case grinding and some diff shimming for preload.

I don't see your FAQ on TM or boosted mopar. Can you give me the link.

[mcsvt]

Tyler, he may be talking about this one.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4083

[turbovanman²]

Ok. Obx it is then.
I emailed James Nemo (james_13021 on td.com) because he was making the spacers a few months ago.
He replied and has them for a very decent price. Would this be a good route to go?

Not sure, never seen one. Have any pics? Also Speeduphoria mentioned that if you run the OBX, you won't need the larger 96 diff as the OBX uses the regular size bearings.

Tyler, he may be talking about this one.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4083

Thankyou sir,