Brakes and more Brakes

[3nglenn]

I plan on doing some major flushing and bleeding of my brakes today. I don't ever seem to be able to get that good solid pedal feel when I finish doing this, on any vehicle. Anyway I replaced the master cylinder last night with a Brand New one, which was bench bled. If I can't get the brakes solid with this installed I'm going to start replacing hoses, cylinders, calipers etc. Would rather not cause everything else appears to be in great shape... Other items are:
1- Should I allow the pedal to hit the floor when the bleeder valves are cracked open?
2- According to Hayne's the bleeding order is RR,LF,LR,RF. (?)
3- Brand new front rotors and pads have been installed
4- No leakage of any kind is visible
5- Vacuum booster appears ok according to the book pumps up hard when the engine is off

Any helpful hints, techniques, ideas much appreciated. Thanks G.P.

P.S> Forgot to mention this is a 89 Spirit ES, T2 conversion, 5-speed

[Turbodave]

A vacuum bleeder really makes it easier vs the pump/hold method, but either should get the air out if done right.

I'm not sure of the format the Chiltons recommends, but it would make sense since with the way the brakess are plumbled. I usually start with the farthest wheel from the master cyl, and then do the rest ending with the left front since it's the closest, this has worked fine for me.

Letting the pedal hit the floor when the bleeders are opened can cause the piston to bottom out in the master cyl and damage it, so try to keep it off the floor a little bit.

Another thing that sometimes helps is to let the system gravity bleed for a few minutes before you try to bleed in manually. Just open a bleeder, make sure the cap is loose or off on the master and go grab a beverage, gravity will let the fluid run down to the caliper and out the bleeder. It will drip slowly, but it should get out a good percentage of the air this way. After that bleed out the rest of the air and it should be good to go.

[jre97]

The brake distribution block flows in an X pattern so to bleed it it you want to go RR,LF,LR,RF and that's according to my FSM.

[vxvxAndrewxvxv]

is it disks or drums in the rears?

[turbovanman²]

You need 2 people for my method and it works everytime.

If rear drums, make sure there adjusted properly. Have a small container, IE small clear juice bottle, 2 feet of 5/16 vacuum hose. Start at whatever wheel you want, IE RR or LR, attach the hose to the nipple, have buddy hold the pedal and crack the bleeder, after the pedal stops, close bleeder. Do this a couple times, then leave the bleeder open. Have buddy pump the brakes until you see no more air or clean fluid. On the down stroke when your happy, close bleeder. Repeat on the other 3. Make sure to check fluid often.

[3nglenn]

Thanks guys! I said the heck with it and went and got calipers and hoses. Just waiting for my daughter to get home from work and we're going to start flushing
Again, thanks for the info... G.P.

Andrew-they're drums in the rear...

[bfarroo]

I've always done it my self with an old brake fluid bottle, some vacuum hose, and a check valve for good measures. Drill a hole large enough for the vacuum hose to fit through. drill a small hole for air to escape. Push the hose through the hole to just above the bottom of the container. Put the check valve in line so you can not blow from the inside of the bottle out. put some vacuum hose on the other side of the check valve. now slip your open end wrench over the bleeder screw and push the hose on after it. open the bleeder screw and go pump the brakes. make sure not to bottom out the pedal and keep the resevoir full. Once the fluid is over the hose in the bottle it can't suck air up along with the help of the check valve. Keep an eye on the fluid coming out. If I'm going to do it I'll pick up one of the big bottles of fluid and flush it all out. Who knows how long the stuff has been in there. you'll be able to tell when the new stuff is coming out.

[3nglenn]

Well, we've got brakes now! I ended up using the vacuum method as the two person pump and bleed wasn't working. I had a vacuum pump and one of those one-man bleeder cups available so I hooked them up in series and went around the car 3 times. Put a thin wrap of teflon tape toward the top of the bleeder screws to keep air from going down the threads and propped the brake pedal down about an inch with a piece of wood. Pumped it to 15 inches of vacuum and cracked the bleeder open and away it went. I could even walk away and top off the master cylinder while the cup was filling... Cup got full and closed the bleeder. Couple times on each tire like that. Fluid looks like water now, nice and clean. Thanks all again for the input. G.P.