Engine build ideas..

[Mysterio]

Not really sure what section this should go in, so I'll put it here cause I'm asking for help!

I have an 87 dodge shelby charger. I would like to rebuild a fully built motor, larger turbo, the works. I'm looking to put the car into 12's.

My basic question, is what's a good setup to go with to get me there? How much power am I going to need to put down to meet that goal? Money isn't really a problem here.

I was looking at fwd & TU and they've got a decent selection of forged internals and what now.

I don't want to run alcohol injection unless it's required, and I don't plan on running nitrous. Just turbo & motor.

Forged pistons & rods... What can be done with the head to make it flow better? Is the TU head worth the money and will support the goals I'm trying to reach? What else internally will needed to be upgraded to support that much power? Clutch, transmission & differential will obviously be upgraded.


Oh yea and as for fuel mods I already have a set of +40's, and a walbro 255 pump. Will that supply enough fuel?

calibration I was thinking about just running a fwd performance cal, one of the highest ones they have. Rather than going with a standalone like megasquirt, too much work.

[GLHS592]

You can run 12's with a pretty stock setup in an L-body. My setup (click on my webpage) runs mid 12's on low boost. If you want to save some money, you might not want to go with a ported cylinder head and the standalone (SDS). If I were on a budget and wanted a consistent 12 second car, I'd spend my money on a Super 60 or hybrid type turbo and a bigger intercooler. A 2.5" or larger exhaust is a must.

calibration I was thinking about just running a fwd performance cal, one of the highest ones they have. Rather than going with a standalone like megasquirt, too much work.

You'd be surprised how easy standalone engine management is. I wouldn't trade my SDS (www.sdsefi.com) for any calibration. I was pulling my hair out with the cal that I had.

[Mysterio]

You can run 12's with a pretty stock setup in an L-body. My setup (click on my webpage) runs mid 12's on low boost. If you want to save some money, you might not want to go with a ported cylinder head and the standalone (SDS). If I were on a budget and wanted a consistent 12 second car, I'd spend my money on a Super 60 or hybrid type turbo and a bigger intercooler. A 2.5" or larger exhaust is a must.



You'd be surprised how easy standalone engine management is. I wouldn't trade my SDS (www.sdsefi.com) for any calibration. I was pulling my hair out with the cal that I had.

Ok well in that case if I can run 12's on a more or less stock setup. I want to run 10's. What I'm trying to say is i'd LIKE to spend a anywhere from 3-4 grand on getting a motor/turbo/intercooler/exhaust setup all built. There is absolutely NO budget.

That is why I was wanting to know what actual engine setup like.. Inside and out is nice. I'd like to see some good numbers and make some good times. If a pretty much stock setup can barely get you into the 12's then I'll build the motor and barely make it into the 11's. Whatever. You get what I'm trying to say?

[Mysterio]

You can run 12's with a pretty stock setup in an L-body. My setup (click on my webpage) runs mid 12's on low boost. If you want to save some money, you might not want to go with a ported cylinder head and the standalone (SDS). If I were on a budget and wanted a consistent 12 second car, I'd spend my money on a Super 60 or hybrid type turbo and a bigger intercooler. A 2.5" or larger exhaust is a must.



You'd be surprised how easy standalone engine management is. I wouldn't trade my SDS (www.sdsefi.com) for any calibration. I was pulling my hair out with the cal that I had.

Ok well in that case if I can run 12's on a more or less stock setup. I want to run 10's. What I'm trying to say is i'd LIKE to spend a anywhere from 3-4 grand on getting a motor/turbo/intercooler/exhaust setup all built. There is absolutely NO budget.

That is why I was wanting to know what actual engine setup like.. Inside and out is nice. I'd like to see some good numbers and make some good times. If a pretty much stock setup can barely get you into the 12's then I'll build the motor and barely make it into the 11's. Whatever. You get what I'm trying to say?

I'll have to take a look at sds and read up on it. If it's not that hard to install maybe i'll look into getting it too.

[GLHSKEN]

Bone stock GLHS set-up with fuel and exhaust work and 18 psi will get you to the high 12's....

Want more, add forged pistons (I like wiseco) $400, TII rods $150, Larger cooler $3-500 3 bar calibration and map $400 +40's $130 Walbro 255 $110 T3/4 hybrid turbo 50 trim $800 clutch to hold it $400 swap to an A555 so the trans will stay together $600 (done right) Ported head to help with exhaust flow $1000... That's an easy 350-400 whp car. It takes 260 for an SC to hit 12's... 350-400 is a mid 11 second street car

[Mysterio]

Bone stock GLHS set-up with fuel and exhaust work and 18 psi will get you to the high 12's....

Want more, add forged pistons (I like wiseco) $400, TII rods $150, Larger cooler $3-500 3 bar calibration and map $400 +40's $130 Walbro 255 $110 T3/4 hybrid turbo 50 trim $800 clutch to hold it $400 swap to an A555 so the trans will stay together $600 (done right) Ported head to help with exhaust flow $1000... That's an easy 350-400 whp car. It takes 260 for an SC to hit 12's... 350-400 is a mid 11 second street car

That's what i'm talking about 8-)

Now that a555 trans is more than strong enough to support it without it blowing up on me? And forged pistons/tII rods are more than strong enough to support 350-400 hp as well?

I've already got +40's, walbro 255 and an AFPR. That will supply enough fuel that way to support the power?

[GLHS592]

Ok well in that case if I can run 12's on a more or less stock setup. I want to run 10's. What I'm trying to say is i'd LIKE to spend a anywhere from 3-4 grand on getting a motor/turbo/intercooler/exhaust setup all built. There is absolutely NO budget.

OK. I didn't know where you were wanting to go. Ken's list is a pretty good summation of what you could go with.

I spent $400 + on a calibration and wish I'd have saved my money. It's a pain in the butt if you have to rely on a guy 1000 miles away to program it for you. You can learn to do it yourself or you can go the easy route and go with a standalone. I don't have the desire or skills to learn how to build a calibration or a megasquirt. The best money I've spent on my car was the SDS.

Now that a555 trans is more than strong enough to support it without it blowing up on me? And forged pistons/tII rods are more than strong enough to support 350-400 hp as well?

A good 555 will take tons of abuse. I wouldn't worry about rebuilding it unless it has a bunch of miles on it. You should be fine with the turbo II rods if you have them reconditioned. Balancing and shot peening would help.

I've already got +40's, walbro 255 and an AFPR. That will supply enough fuel that way to support the power?

That will support a lot of power. You just want to keep tabs on what you're doing and make sure you are pumping enough fuel.

[Mysterio]

Ok great thanks for the help. I'll read ken's list and see what he has on there too.

[Whorse]

If you're looking to throw money at it (not necessarily wasting, just money that won't net the HP gains as what Ken said), you can have a lot of machining and blueprinting done.

Common block is the way to go (89+). You can use TII rods and Forged Pistons, and throw everything you have at it, or you can build up a tough bottom end.

Main bearings with 360 degree oiling are a good idea IMO for a high HP engine. You could get your crank turned and then run oversized bearings if you need it freshened, heck you could send it out to get knife edged, balanced, and cryo treated.

Open up the oil hole in the block to match the pump, open up the pickup for the oil pump, install an oil pan baffle and crank scrapers, maybe a deep sump pan.

Not really huge HP gains, but a few things I've looked at for my block, either now or in the future. Things like braided steel fuel, coolant, and oil lines make the engine bay look nice, and give you some peace of mind over leaky stock rubber lines. Maybe alcohol injection? Devilsown kits get rave reviews.

Just a few additional thoughts beyond your basic setup.

[GLHSKEN]

A good 555 will take tons of abuse. I wouldn't worry about rebuilding it unless it has a bunch of miles on it. You should be fine with the turbo II rods if you have them reconditioned. Balancing and shot peening would help.

Yep, Kevin is right. How bout a 10.8 second Omni running 133 in the 1/4. TII rods, A555 trans. Been in the car going on it's 4th year.

[slasky]

I should be in the 11s this year with my SC. I have a stock head, t2 rods, forged pistons, 555 with a chromoly trans plate, super 60 turbo, spearco intercooler, and 3" exhaust.

[Mysterio]

Ok guys. Now. If I get into the low 11's high 10's and I'm running slicks, what am I gonna break? What are the weak points on these cars that at those power levels start to break? I'd rather take care of it BEFORE it breaks than have it break at the track.

[GLHS592]

All the drivetrain parts are beefy enough for your goals. Axles can be a problem. I went with an unequal length axle setup because the factory passenger side setup has too many parts that could fail and break other things. I am using a shortened minivan axle on the passenger side and an unknown axle cut to length on the driver's side. With the A-555, you will have to change the axles anyway. The A-525 and A-555 have different splines.