Adj. cam pulleys for Masi 16V DOHC. Any interest?

[4 l-bodies]

I talked on the phone with Fidanza today 2/27/07 about possibility of making up some adjustable cam pulleys for the Cosworth (Masi) DOHC 16V motor.

The good news is they are willing! They will make these if we can come up with 25 sets (50) total pieces. After committing, and CNC programing, it will take about 6 weeks to complete the project. Pricing certainly hasn't been finalized, but should be about double what the SOHC pulleys go for (since there are two). My best off the top of my head price would be around $250 for the set. Hopefully lower. Until we have enough commitment to buy, these will be sold in pairs only.

Please pass the word along to all the Masi 16V owners that might be interested and email me Todd Nelson at Omnishelby@yahoo.com if you are interested in being in on this group buy. If we don't get 25 people to commit it's not going to happen. I am not doing this for income, so as a result, I am not willing to shell out approx. $6000 up front to make this happen.

The Fidanza current generation pulleys have allan socketed bolts threaded into the pulley. In other words, there is no need to hold the other side of bolt with an allan wrench (like there is any room on our motors anyway).

We really need to start putting our heads and pocketbooks together to get parts made for these motors. I think we need to take this approach on other parts like valve cover gaskets, cam covers, rod bearings, etc. If we try to do this individually, nothing will ever get done.

Give me any feedback that you might have.

Regards,
Todd Nelson

[Xtrempickup]

do you realize there are 501 Masi motors out there tentatively, of which you need 25 ppl to want cam gears for it. some of these ppl dont even realize their car is rare and can make more HP. and i wonder of the 501 how many are left, i would think maybe 1/2 or 3/4 at best. its a shot, I just bought TIII gears for 279$, dont think i can go for a set for the masi, the rest of the parts are expensive and rare enough as it is

[4 l-bodies]

do you realize there are 501 Masi motors out there tentatively, of which you need 25 ppl to want cam gears for it. some of these ppl dont even realize their car is rare and can make more HP. and i wonder of the 501 how many are left, i would think maybe 1/2 or 3/4 at best. its a shot, I just bought TIII gears for 279$, dont think i can go for a set for the masi, the rest of the parts are expensive and rare enough as it is

You don't need to school me or any 16V Masi owner on Masi motors. We know what we have. I believe you have owned one 16V TC, and barely ever have drove it, let alone wrenched on it much. You got it running, that's great, but hardy an expert on these motors.
I seem to remember recently setting you straight on another 16V motor (HH head). Your right though, not many Masi 16V motors were produced. You might be forgeting about all the spare and prototype heads. More than a total of 501 of these heads were made. With three people contacted, I am 20% there already.

You seem to be committed to selling your motor, so as a result we weren't counting on you to purchase a set. Thanks though for your input, duly noted.

Good luck with the Lotus motor.
Todd Nelson

[2.216VTurbo]

Todd, I have only respect for your efforts to make another performance part available for my favorite motor, it's more than I have taken on and you deserve props for it IMO. When I read Extreme's somewhat negative reply (possibly unintentional, he gets the benefit of the doubt) I thought about pasting up his quote about 'how much he will enjoy' parting out his TC come spring. So obviously, he's no fan of his TC, maybe he does recognize the potential of the powerplant though since he plans on keeping the motor for a future project. Since your goal is to make the gears availble for the 16V Masi enthusisasts, my thought is a vendor could step in for us to make up for any minumum order shortfall. I have contacted one of the TD vendors for a little help.

I'm with you on this, mark me down for three sets of gears

[GLHNSLHT2]

I don't see why we need such a high minimum order at all. Can't they just flip the gear over on thier jig and stamp the mark and then do the same with the laser etching on the gear? It's not hard to have the .100 or so machined off after the fact.

Are they gonna look like the ones in the Ebay auction? Or has fidanza redesigned them?? Would be nice to see a pic of the current ones if they are different. I'll probably be up for a set.

[4 l-bodies]

I don't see why we need such a high minimum order at all. Can't they just flip the gear over on thier jig and stamp the mark and then do the same with the laser etching on the gear? It's not hard to have the .100 or so machined off after the fact.

Are they gonna look like the ones in the Ebay auction? Or has fidanza redesigned them?? Would be nice to see a pic of the current ones if they are different. I'll probably be up for a set.

I tried for the absolute bare minimum order. I did explain in detail what needs to change to work in our application. It will be similar to the current gen SOHC but will be sort of a mirror image of it. I do have a current round tooth SOHC Fidanza sprocket on a motor I'm putting together. I will take a picture of it tomorrow. Maybe I can email it to Alan or someone that is a member and they can post, or maybe it's time for me to subscribe. It is close to the one on Ebay except for some minor changes to the adjustment hardware.
Where Fidanza will save is in programing for CNC. Like you said, very few changes will have to be made to the SOHC program. I'm hoping that savings will get passed back to us in lower set-up costs. That is the main reason why they could not give a firm quote. They obviously need something in hand before doing so.
They know this could be a one time only run for them, so it's not a huge incentive for them. Fifty pieces will make it worth their while, under that, and it's not worth the effort. The other issue is labor, as their are quite a few steps in making the pulleys, and the other issue is that while our cam pulleys are in the CNC machines, other larger quantity pieces are not. I guess we are just a small fish in the big pond.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well I was just seeing it as it should be another run of SOHC gears. Then in the secondary ops where they stamp the mark on the inner gear and looks like they laser etch the marks on the outer gear it would seem it would be as easy as just flipping the gear over since the 1st batch they made were already on the "correct" hehe side for us. As far as machining them down to the right thickness it's easy for me to do that at work. If the min order was smaller I'd be willing to do that to all the gears. But I can't do 50 gears under the radar

I excitedly await a picture.

thanks.

[ShelbyTC16v]

I am most likely in too Todd. So I believe you are much more than 20% of the way now.

[4 l-bodies]

I have an update on interested parties. The bad news is only seven Masi owners have committed to purchasing at this point. The good news is, those seven owners have really stepped up to the plate. We are half way to our goal of 25 cars. This does not include a vendor that may step in to help should we need them to. Let your fellow Masi owners know that this could be a one time deal, and if they plan on EVER rebuilding their motor, that this will be the easy way to correct the retarded cam timing which will be the unintentional result of rebuilding.

One needs to make hay while the sun shines. How many of us would now order valve cover gaskets, timing belts, rod bearings, timing covers, headgaskets, parking light lenses, cornering lights and headlights, etc. "IF" we knew back then, what we know now?

A perfect recent example of this will be the people that didn't order the Masi valves from Rick will in years to come, will have wished they had. The look on their face after getting a price quote when trying to get one set of custom valves made for their motor will be priceless. And who is to say they will get the valves correctly made the first go around? I know they won't get a better quality valve than Rick got made up. They will probably pay double what the group paid, and end up with inferior valves.

I can't count the number of times my fellow SD enthusiasts have wanted to know where they can get that oil pan, fuel rail, intercooler, 2 & 4 bolt billet main caps, S-60 harness, ECU, etc. that they see on some of my cars. I no longer even feel sorry for them when I tell them that they missed out, that they are not available anymore. Those who snooze... often times lose.

For those that can post on this forum, I do have some pics available of the current generation cam pulley for the SOHC motors. Our DOHC pulleys would look similar. I already have sent these to a couple people on this thread. LMK if anyone needs any more info.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Todd count me in for 1 set.

[4 l-bodies]

We have less than ten sets to get commitments for.
Todd

[OMNI-Potent]

Awesome!

So it looks like it will happen?

[4 l-bodies]

Awesome!

So it looks like it will happen?

We shall see. Looking more promising than a few days ago. Just not willing to stick my neck out for thousands of dollars and have a pile of Masi pulleys I can't sell. This is a pretty small market were dealing with, I can't lose sight of that. I just wish more TC owners would see the light on why this would be a good thing to purchase while the opportunity presents itself.

One thing that I was thinking about is trying to have them designed so they could be used for 8V SOHC by reversing the gear and adding a bushing. Obviously the timing marks would also have to be put on both sides of the pulley. Wheels are turning in my hamster cage. Either that or we need to cast more Masi heads. Yeah that's the ticket!!!
Todd

[Xtrempickup]

don't worry, I hate to say this but, casting Masi heads would be great, but somebody who will remain nameless has a better head in the recasting stage and that is gonna put all them and the hybrids to sleep. just wait as blast from the past is coming back soon.

[ShelbyTC16v]

don't worry, I hate to say this but, casting Masi heads would be great, but somebody who will remain nameless has a better head in the recasting stage and that is gonna put all them and the hybrids to sleep. just wait as blast from the past is coming back soon.

Okay, I won't ask who, but how about this head? What is it or what is it based on?

[Xtrempickup]

I wont say any more, it's been discussed before this head, but thats all i'll say. Shelby had the right idea i'll leave it at that

[GLHNSLHT2]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.

The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.

The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

what's the bushing for? The gears on my head are stock T1 turbo gears with .100" taken off. Get the timing marks on both sides and you should be set.

The whole Fidanza pulley would have to be redone as the ID on the backside is not the same ID as the frontside. In other words, you can't just reverse the inner piece of the Fidanza pulley, as it doesn't fit. Wish it was that easy. If you look closely at the pics I sent you, you can see the thickness of the outer ring is different from front to back.
If it could be designed to be reversable, you would need some sort of bushing or spacer to make it work on the 8V applications. What would be correct alignment for a 16V would be not correct for a 8v.
Todd