E85 question

[3Bar_Mopar]

Would it be harmful to get maybe a gallon of E85 with a half tank of regular unleaded? I know alcohol content can play havoc on rubber lines, fuel pumps and seize injectors....

[Speedeuphoria]

dont think so, if you were on the very edge of lean, then it would make you a hair leaner.

[johnl]

If your thought is that it will increase the octane rating of the regular, then be careful - your effective octane rating will be higher but your mixture will be leaner because E85 has a lot less density than 100% gasoline.

[Clay]

Agree with everyone on that subject. One thing to look at if you have a regular E85 supply available to you is conversion over to solid E85 use. Many many people looking for a streetable fuel for high performance engines are switching over to E85. The big steps are making sure everything is E85 compatible, and then adjusting fuel to meet the needs. In my town I believe the ratio is around +20% more fuel in winter, +30% more fuel in summer.

Im looking into this with my GLHT because Im going to upgrade some things in the fuel system anyway, and they will be E85 compliant. There is a gas station down the road that sells E85 all year round as well. A friend here in town with an Evo has already done his conversion, and puts down 500 whp at the moment with no issues, so we shall see.

[johnl]

According to an article I read, E85 has only 72% as much energy as gasoline.

The U.S. Department of Energy says a vehicle has to use 1.4 times as much E-85 as gasoline to go the same distance.

[CDNTurboZ]

What exactly has to be done to convert over to E85?? I have to buy pretty much all new stuff for my fuel system in my daytona, it may be an idea to get a few of the E85 things now, so in the future I can run it.

[johnl]

Find a flex fuel mini van.

[1FastCSX289]

Agree with everyone on that subject. One thing to look at if you have a regular E85 supply available to you is conversion over to solid E85 use. Many many people looking for a streetable fuel for high performance engines are switching over to E85. The big steps are making sure everything is E85 compatible, and then adjusting fuel to meet the needs. In my town I believe the ratio is around +20% more fuel in winter, +30% more fuel in summer.

Im looking into this with my GLHT because Im going to upgrade some things in the fuel system anyway, and they will be E85 compliant. There is a gas station down the road that sells E85 all year round as well. A friend here in town with an Evo has already done his conversion, and puts down 500 whp at the moment with no issues, so we shall see.

Yea, i have been thinking about converting my CSX to run on ethanol. I am running SDS, so tuning will be pretty easy, but what are the other issues you mention to make everything E85 compatible??

[Clay]

Yea, i have been thinking about converting my CSX to run on ethanol. I am running SDS, so tuning will be pretty easy, but what are the other issues you mention to make everything E85 compatible??

Im not 100% sure yet, but all the hoses, fuel rail, injectors, and anything else that comes in contact with fuel has to be able to take the alcohol in the E85. Like any flex fuel vehicle chrysler made in the past had SS fuel rails and teflon/SS braided lines, different injectors, etc.

clay

[Clay]

If your thought is that it will increase the octane rating of the regular, then be careful - your effective octane rating will be higher but your mixture will be leaner because E85 has a lot less density than 100% gasoline.

exactly why you have to run 20 -> 30% more fuel.

[cordes]

Yea, i have been thinking about converting my CSX to run on ethanol. I am running SDS, so tuning will be pretty easy, but what are the other issues you mention to make everything E85 compatible??

The biggest issue to me is the fuel tank which needs to be plastic like ffvs.

[1FastCSX289]

Im not 100% sure yet, but all the hoses, fuel rail, injectors, and anything else that comes in contact with fuel has to be able to take the alcohol in the E85. Like any flex fuel vehicle chrysler made in the past had SS fuel rails and teflon/SS braided lines, different injectors, etc.

clay

Yea, that about as big of a PITA as I thought it would be.......

[cordes]

Yea, that about as big of a PITA as I thought it would be.......

When you think about it, it is really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. The fuel rail would probably be the hardest part to source for a car like yours since I don't know how well the stock FFV rails flow. Injectors would be another one. I posted last week about reasonably priced alky. compatible injectors which will flow enough, and there was no response. You have got to figure that if alky will be the equiv. of .70 the gas required, you would probably have to go up to at least 72pph injectors to run upwards of 30PSI. which would most likely be very feasible with E85.

[Clay]

The biggest issue to me is the fuel tank which needs to be plastic like ffvs.

why would the tank need to / have to be plastic?

I dont think that alcohol attacks/corrodes steel, or maybe it does from what Ive looked up. But you can always apply a coating to the interior of the tank to do the same job.

[Clay]

Ok, I just looked up some info on the steel tanks. A carbon steel tank filled with E85 can have a galvanic coupling effect, which basically will fill parts of the fuel system with the byproduct of that effect, and start clogging things up.

Also, you have to have an E85 compatible fuel pump and fuel level indicator. E85 is highly electrically conductive and a spark could actually ignite the fumes in the tank.

All steel lines need to be replaced with either SS or anodized aluminum parts.

So to convert a TD over to E85 you have to have a new fuel pump, new fuel level indicator, all new lines, different injectors, different fuel rail, and a different FPR (and probably a few other things Ive missed!).

So basically an entirely new fuel system from back to front. The front end and lines are easy. Either find a FFV and get the parts from it, or our vendors have rails. Injectors are out there, and any good industrial supply house will have lines made of teflon w/ SS braided outside. The hard part would be the fuel tank/fuel level indicator. Easy way out of that is to use a fuel cell. OR you could do like many people have and run a small fuel tank in the front of the car.

Im going to work on this because Im going to add a TU fuel rail to my car. When I do this Im planning to run teflon/SS fuel lines anyway. Ill have to find an E85 compatible 255 fuel pump (shouldn't be that hard). Dont know what to do about fuel tank yet.

[Clay]

Oh yes, and you can save some money depending on how you look at this.

Use E85 = no need for alcohol injection kit! So that that money, and invest in E85 stuff!!!

(I know, Im reeeeaaaallly stretching it!)

[cordes]

Oh yes, and you can save some money depending on how you look at this.

Use E85 = no need for alcohol injection kit! So that that money, and invest in E85 stuff!!!

(I know, Im reeeeaaaallly stretching it!)

since the injectors I priced out the other day were about $120 each, I would sure say so. I thought that you could not use an AL. fuel rail with E85, and that it had to be SS. I know the FFVs had the plastic tanks, SS hard lines, and the teflon braided lines going to a SS rail.

ETA: I guess that would make sense though because the AN fittings are all alky compatible and they are anodized AL.

[Clay]

bare aluminum is probably a no-no, but anodized stuff seams to be ok.

[cordes]

bare aluminum is probably a no-no, but anodized stuff seams to be ok.

yeah, that makes total sense to me now. Judging by Chris' response to your question regarding their rails, I should only have to get my rail anodized, and then that part is taken care of. Braided line, or even SS hard line is not that expensive relatively speaking, and that only leaves the pump, tank, and injectors. It won't be cheap, but you can't beat running 30PSI on the street all the time either.

[altered7151]

Not to hi-jack, but theres a FFV spirit in the yard here if anyone is looking for parts.