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Thread: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

  1. #1

    89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Hello all, been researching non stop the last couple days of future mods for a car I'm looking at. It's an '89 Daytona 2.2. It's already got a rebuilt engine, +20's, AFPR, Walbro 255, New clutch, 3" exhaust and some other goodies. Looking to the following mods on it:

    Hybrid or S60 turbo (unsure of which yet) with 3" sv
    +40's
    Ceramic 4 Puck Clutch and HD presure plate
    SRT4 style fmic from ebay
    ported swirl head (looking at either the S1 or S2 from LWP.com)
    Ported Ex. Manifold
    I'm wanting a custom cal. Don't really want to run a fwdperf as I hear they're not all that great for an aftermarket cal. I would order from TU.com but they're backordered until who knows when... I'm looking at running either MegaSquirt or Using a Dcal/CHEM setup and possibly burning my own stuff.
    My goals for the car is around 300whp...

    So...First a couple Q's.
    What's the difference in D-Cal and CHEM? Which is better? Just looking at the stuff on CHEM.com it looks fairly easy, especially downloading the "ladybug" program...
    For the '89 Tona do I have an SBEC? If not, then what?
    I'm confident that I can socket the SBEC and am reading up on a "how to" for it. For running a Dcal, am I able to download the "Ladybug" setup, and adapt it to the bigger turbo and ported head? Is it just a matter of downloaded the 'base' ladybug and modifying the code then burning a chip and running it? I don't plan to have the car ready to run until April (if I decide to purchase it) sometime so that gives me plenty of time in the garage. Any advice I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

    Michael

    PS, I just registered and moparchem and my SN is MichaelJ.

  2. #2
    Invisible Turbo Mopar Contributor mcsvt's Avatar
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    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    89 would be an SMEC. I haven't looked at CHEM for a while, so I can't give you any advice about it. But D-Cal I might be able to give you an overview. Pretty much you can go to the files section and find a cal that is similar to what you need. From there you can adjust as needed for you "upgrades". I would recommend a wideband as I am sure others would. When ever making changes take it slow and do it right the first time.
    -Gary Mazzone-
    1986 GLHS #168

  3. #3
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    CHeM and D-Cal do essentially the same thing. And, they use the same table file format. So, with exceptions I'm sure, you can open a CHeM cal in D-Cal and vice-versa. It's really just a preference thing, but there are some notable differences:

    1. D-Cal can flash the cal to a suitable modifed SMEC, but not LM or SBEC. CHeM can flash LM or SMEC, but not SBEC (nothing can flash a SBEC yet).

    2. CHeM can datalog a LM. D-Cal doesn't do datalogging at all.

    Personally, I prefer the user interface in D-Cal. And, Derek's been promising 2.0 for a while now with a lot of nice new features...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

  4. #4

    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Thanks guys, just got accepted to the D-cal group on Yahoo. Hope to do some research there... Anybody done SMEC's for an 89 T2 yet? Just curious as to whats all out there so far.

    Michael

  5. #5
    Invisible Turbo Mopar Contributor mcsvt's Avatar
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    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Check the file section on Yahoo. There should be a couple 89 T2 cals, haven't looked in a while but there are prob some scaled for different injectors.

    Main thing with D-Cal is searching the message board. If you have a question it was most likely already asked and most the time won't get answered again
    -Gary Mazzone-
    1986 GLHS #168

  6. #6

    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Thanks for the advice!

    Michael

  7. #7
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    one thing youll want to do is get some cals from the d-cal board and download a copy of ladybug and load it up in dcal or chem and see what the tables look like to get familiar with the program. try to get multiple cals from the same person that have the same table file structure so you can load a comparison cal and see what the differences are. the one i like to look at is rob's 89 cal based on the 89 T1 code for both a 2.2 and a 2.5. then you can see what the differences are.

    for your setup, you are going to have to scale the cal for the +40's and the 3-bar map. (cake... moparchem has the info) for the ported head, intercooler, and turbo (exhaust housing flowing more especially).. those are all going to effect the overall pumping efficiency (ie volumetric efficiency) of the setup so much of the changes are going to be made in the pumping efficiency table.

    to tune the fuel setup youll want a wideband. start out with really low or no boost and do some pulls. datalog the values and make changes to the pumping efficiency table. keep raising the boost slowly and datalogging. if you have one rpm that is consistently lean or rich at various boost levels, then the pumping efficiency should be changed. if you keep doing pulls and most of the rpm points are consistent and then you raise the boost and then the a/f's are rich or lean at most of the rpm points, then the FuelFullThrottle curve should be changed. if you do alot of high boost-part throttle driving, FuelPartThrottle should be about the same as FuelFullThrottle but keep in mind that you are going to have to make timing changes as well.

    good luck and happy tuning.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  8. #8

    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    one thing youll want to do is get some cals from the d-cal board and download a copy of ladybug and load it up in dcal or chem and see what the tables look like to get familiar with the program. try to get multiple cals from the same person that have the same table file structure so you can load a comparison cal and see what the differences are. the one i like to look at is rob's 89 cal based on the 89 T1 code for both a 2.2 and a 2.5. then you can see what the differences are.

    for your setup, you are going to have to scale the cal for the +40's and the 3-bar map. (cake... moparchem has the info) for the ported head, intercooler, and turbo (exhaust housing flowing more especially).. those are all going to effect the overall pumping efficiency (ie volumetric efficiency) of the setup so much of the changes are going to be made in the pumping efficiency table.

    to tune the fuel setup youll want a wideband. start out with really low or no boost and do some pulls. datalog the values and make changes to the pumping efficiency table. keep raising the boost slowly and datalogging. if you have one rpm that is consistently lean or rich at various boost levels, then the pumping efficiency should be changed. if you keep doing pulls and most of the rpm points are consistent and then you raise the boost and then the a/f's are rich or lean at most of the rpm points, then the FuelFullThrottle curve should be changed. if you do alot of high boost-part throttle driving, FuelPartThrottle should be about the same as FuelFullThrottle but keep in mind that you are going to have to make timing changes as well.

    good luck and happy tuning.

    Brian
    Great advice man, thanks! However, I got some questions.

    When you say: "get some cals from the d-cal board and download a copy of ladybug and load it up in dcal or chem and see what the tables look like " What do you mean load it up IN dcal or chem. Just browsing over the last day or two all I see for dcal and chem are websites. Is there an ACTUAL program you download THEN download ladybug into that? Thanks.

    Michael

  9. #9
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    yup, d-cal is a program and chem is a program.

    dcal can be found here: in the files section. http://autos.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/D-Cal/ youll have to register first though.

    ChEM can be found at www.moparchem.com in the downloads section.

    i myself prefer the interface of D-cal better.

    once you get a copy of the program, download some calibrations from the "custom calibration" section in the files section of the d-cal message board and then load them in D-cal. there is a how-to-use document that comes with d-cal. read that in its entirety. youll especially want to learn how to load a second comparison calibration so that you can compare. (ie press options, press browse to locate the calibration and then hit ok)

    then you can compare the differences between cals.

    a little note... something that had me all frustrated for a while was when i wanted to compare different calibrations that were for different injector sizes and for different map sensors. this will make the fuel curves in the tables not line up nicely so that you can compare the different small changes. thats why I suggested that you take a look at Rob's cals for the 2.2 and the 2.5 for 1989. they are both +40, 3-bar calibrations and use the same table file (more or less) so d-cal can compare them easily.

    say you wanted to compare a 89 stock cal with a 89 +40, 3-bar cal. the curves wont line up real nice cause they are scaled to different values to accomodate the different sensor and injector hardware. youll get the idea better when you take a look at it.

    oh and btw, D-cal compares the name of the tables when you load a secondary cal. if you have a cal that different people made the table file for, you wont be able to compare them unless you edit the names to match but you kinda need to know what you are doing at that point.

    Brian

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #10

    Re: 89 T2: Chem and Dcal...?

    Thanks! I did that a little bit yesterday on Dcal (downloaded D-cal and some custom cals.). One thing I noticed however though, is that for D-cal all the custom cals are based off of a T-1 style Cal.... Can I still burn a T2 cal from this format? Thanks.

    Michael

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