Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/
Company is still in business. The people who actually used one had issues trying to use the transmission on the street. That's the issue with the transmission, you tune it under WOT then everything else is completely different at different throttle positions. I've talked to Jay at PCS and we've talked for a strict drag race application WOT condition could be tuned.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boots
https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/
Company is still in business. The people who actually used one had issues trying to use the transmission on the street. That's the issue with the transmission, you tune it under WOT then everything else is completely different at different throttle positions. I've talked to Jay at PCS and we've talked for a strict drag race application WOT condition could be tuned.
Based on taking no regard for wear on shift timing since there would be no attempt at slipping between gears to make things smooth...
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Today I had randomly started searching for PT GT’s for my wife to drive around in until I decide to turn them into a donor car for something cool, I started thinking about the 41te in any other application.
I remember years ago I read on 2gn.org (a neon site) about a guy who had done an SRT swap on his 03 neon but kept the 4 speed auto. He claimed he was shifting the car with switches wired to the solenoid packs since he didn’t have a PT GT pcm. I know people do this on GM 4l60/80 transmissions, on 4 speed auto 4g63 cars, and the a340 behind 2jz cars. I’m sure in a street application it would break the transmission but if someone is just trying to drag race would this idea work? Or because of how the trans is designed would it simply fry a clutch pack before the gear change is done?
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
INVUJerry
Today I had randomly started searching for PT GT’s for my wife to drive around in until I decide to turn them into a donor car for something cool, I started thinking about the 41te in any other application.
I remember years ago I read on 2gn.org (a neon site) about a guy who had done an SRT swap on his 03 neon but kept the 4 speed auto. He claimed he was shifting the car with switches wired to the solenoid packs since he didn’t have a PT GT pcm. I know people do this on GM 4l60/80 transmissions, on 4 speed auto 4g63 cars, and the a340 behind 2jz cars. I’m sure in a street application it would break the transmission but if someone is just trying to drag race would this idea work? Or because of how the trans is designed would it simply fry a clutch pack before the gear change is done?
It would either bind or flare depending on when you flicked the switches cause it's a clutch release to another clutch apply shift style. From what I gather, the next gear clutch that is going to apply does some preparation and gets filled up and ready to apply precisely as the current gear clutch is releasing.
It requires a lot of timing to be precise and adaptive to compensate for wear and part differences.
In other words, switches won't work.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
I mean, if we're serious enough about, I think this guy would try to do it. He's all about making quirky things on the cheap.
http://www.twistedbuilds.com/categor...on-controller/
That can be adapted to work for the 41TE I'm sure.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WarlockSyno
that would work IF:
he reads the patent docs on how the shift has to occur and then codes to re-create that as well as allowing for some adaptive code to adjust the shift based on input and output speed control and other factors to prevent bind or flare.
what he is controlling now can be shifted no problem with toggle switches. a 4l80 or a 4l60 GM automatic is a simple few switches on or off to change gear.
a buddy of mine had a p30 box truck with a GM 6.5 and a 4l80e. he shifted it with a few house light switches cause something was wrong with the controller.
the chrysler 41te is alot more complicated.
Brian
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WarlockSyno
The way that the GM and Ford transmissions are controlled are totally different from the Chrysler algorithm. So, my confidence that a GM controller can operate a Chrysler transmission is *zero*.
The Chrysler uses:
turbine input speed
turbine output speed
VSS (pre '91)
gear selector position
line pressure
transmission fluid temp
throttle position sensor
engine coolant temp
MAP sensor
engine rpm (I think over CCD Bus)
I might be missing something because this is all off the top of my head.
Using those inputs the TCM controls:
4 solenoids (only 3 are used for 4 forward gears and 1 reverse...the 4th is for torque converter lock)
*torque management request (from what I remember only later and 3.8L vehicles had this...works over the CCD Bus)
The solenoids *can* withstand 100% duty cycle, but that's not how they work in normal operation. The TCM uses PWM's to actuate the solenoids. There's also a "special sequence" that allows the downshift into 1st gear as there's an internal "lock" that allows 1 solenoid to control 2 gear ratios. This sequence isn't very well described, even in the patents for the control system.
So...there's the gist of the overall issue...we've been mucking with these ideas for 20 years. We even have "inside help" in the form of people who have/had access to development stuff. *ONE* person manually shifted their A604 on the street with minimal success. It ended up nuking OD by accidentally going into boost (OD can NOT take *any* power) IIRC and I don't think he had the finding to rebuild the tranny again. 2 Neon guys have used the PCM in drag race only applications with mixed results (though the feedback was VERY encouraging).
In other words, this is one VERY tough nut to crack.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Yet it seems 5digits could help if he had interest. Probably not.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
I’m sure in a street application it would break the transmission but if someone is just trying to drag race would this idea work?
Not with simple switches per se but there was already a 1g neon that ran 10s on a 604 using an aftermarket controller with no 'adaptives'. The thing about using a 604 in a drag racing app is that 4th gear is mechanically/structurally weak so you can really only put power down in 1-3. Most the chrysler FWD motors have the option of just using the 3spd in that case. The 4spd is attractive for a street car that's not absurdly powerful because you can use lower overall 1-3 gearing and still end up with a better top gear cruising ratio. The thing about that is you can already more or less just do that with a stock controller, it just won't shift 'sporty' and will last somewhat less long than a stock application (keeping in mind that 604s were used in stock apps up to ~250tq with normal lifespans). Still longer than any controller with no adaptives.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Being able to control shift points would be a first nice step.
Syke seems to have control over 1997 and later model stuff, which would include late model crank trigger 3.0 setups which would also have 41te options. He has nothing for the older models. Its sad to see this stuff all die when it could live another life.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Since this is a 41TE/A604 thread, has anyone been able to maybe reflash the EATX computer itself? Other question, is there any newer valve body (I actually have a 40 or 41TE from a 2000 Stratus 2.4L NA engine) that has any way of controlling the line pressure either with a vacuum/pressure modulator or a PWM solenoid valve? FWIW, the solenoid pack on the 2000 had the electrical connector mangled when it was wrecked so I opened it, way different than the older units and it is the style Chrysler sells as the replacement for the older units.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
i purchased a drb2 eatx flash setup off ebay that i'm still waiting on to receive. once i get that i'll need to locate an eatx controller and then look at monitoring signals, programming routines/protocols. i'll post more when i have a better idea what's up.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Do you need one to play with? I think at last count I have 3, but one is a real early one.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
eventually, i want to first play with a couple sbec2 ecu's i have here to fully understand what i will be able to track/figure out. i'll keep you in mind.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wowzer
eventually, i want to first play with a couple sbec2 ecu's i have here to fully understand what i will be able to track/figure out. i'll keep you in mind.
I have 2 Spirit E.S.'s with 41TE. 1993 and 1990. Totally stock. Hoping to play with the sbec2 soon at least with rev limiter and speed limiter knocked off or bumped up for now.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
brent, i did post up 92 sbec2 cals (t1, v6) some time back here http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...als&highlight=
if you have one of the boostbutton sbec2 flash modules you should be able to tweak away.
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
I have about 6 or 7 EATX controllers, some disassembled, came from Rob L. You are welcome to use them for testing whenever you get to that point.
Wondering if just adding a crank sensor would allow us to use newer tuners to adjust shift points?
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
ok thx. any ideas what years? chip numbers?
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
Re: 41TE/604 operated by Megasquirt
I had sent i think 2 of those to Rob back in the day. At least one of them was an 89 since thought back when was that it was closest to a standalone controller. I don't know if any of them are actually that much more complex as far as their inputs and outputs, but the code might be simpler to modify in one generation vs another.