That is really quite a list. Makes me feel like I'm not getting anything done.
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That is really quite a list. Makes me feel like I'm not getting anything done.
Warren, there's a place here in Michigan called MPR Race Cars. I don't know if you've heard of Mike Pulsteny (pull-stone-ee), but he has been building beautiful and very fast race cars for many years. He has the contract with Mopar to build the challenger drag pack cars.
I think you could teach his guys some things about building a race car...
Fuel pump is a Bosch unit, draws 12 amp @ 5bar/16v. turns out going from 13.5 volts with alt., to 16 volts, the pump output capacity increases by about 30%.
16v output is dead linear even with batt. in voltage as low as 9.75V. The Jacobs Accuvolt 1500 will deliver up to 100 amps/1500 watts.
I built the battery box to hold two AGM batteries just in case, but so far I'm surprised how long it will run and still start on a charge with just one . I always charged my battery between rounds anyway for consistancy.
Really?!?!? You guys are going to make me bring this up?!? OK, Warren, you are not fooling anybody. We can all clearly see that along the fender harness the white wire ducks behind the red wire when it should really follow its order the whole length. I mean c'mon, do it right or don't do it at all. I'm sorry I had to break it to you this way but your ego is obviously getting out of control. ;)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1.../wiring205.jpg
Please tell me you saw the winky eye....
I can't say anything more than :hail: I absolutely love clean wiring since it is the area the average joe hacks to bits, yet when done properly it can look like structured art. Excellent effort and attention Warren. Once again I can only aspire. :clap:
I really expected more from you Warren......
All kidding aside great job as always.
cant say much thant the others , attention to details is ... freaking awesome !
Hey! I use the same oil filter as this awesome machine!
Warren, I can honestly say that I've only seen MAYBE 3 or 4 vehicles in my LIFE that could compare to this! Your attention to detail and abilities are beyond belief!!
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/...0-HOLYSHIT.jpg
schwwiiiinnnng!
if my car was 1/4 clean as your car id be happy.
Suck it Warren, hope that motivates you :P
That Bosch pump has a really really low AMP pull. Is that why you picked it? plain old walbros pull near 20 at either 14 or 16 volts I can't remember, and have less capacity I am sure.
I have 2 externals walbros and Megasquirt primes my fuel pumps for a full 5 seconds and on the worn out SLA battery I had I could hear the stupid pumps grinding down on the battery and changing tone.
What is the Amp hours on those batteries?
The entire current load with everything running is less than 40A.(actual measured) That includes Fuel pump. water pump,both control modules,instruments and even park and tail lamps. The battery voltage into the Accuvolt box can be as low as 9.75V and the output voltage will stay dead level 16v, or what ever I set it to as it is adjustable between 13-16.25v.
The battery I'm using is a Odyssey PC625, 16 amp hr 12V.
http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/raceaccuvolt.htm
I've been looking at these as well, to kill the alternator when racing.....they are $$$ though.
I have an older version.
Did you see their chart? Are you running 18's?
And do you know how much HP an alternator robs?Quote:
Jacobs Electronics Guarantees the Following 1/4 Mile Results:
If the present 1/4 mile ET is: ACCUVOLT REDUCES ET BY AT LEAST
Accuvolt at 14V Accuvolt at 16V
Below 6.49 sec No Data No Data
6.50 - 7.99 sec 0.15 sec 0.17 sec
8.00 - 9.49 sec 0.19 sec 0.22 sec
9.50 - 10.99 sec 0.21 sec 0.25 sec
11.00 - 12.49 sec 0.25 sec 0.29 sec
12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
14.00 - 15.49 sec 0.33 sec 0.38 sec
15.50 - 16.99 sec 0.38 sec 0.43 sec
17.00 - 18.49 sec 0.42 sec 0.47 sec
18.50 - and above 0.50 sec 0.56 sec
ROFLMAO!
Voltage says .34volts-
Quote:
12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
Did you actually read the chart?Quote:
Originally Posted by badassperformance
I am not off by saying 1/2 sec as they claim a minimim of .34 secs if I up the voltage.
That's still a wicked claim, and they say AT LEAST!
Marketing hype aside it is a high quality piece and works exactly as advertized. it uses capacitors to regulate the power. I weighs 8lbs, so I mounted it in front; behind the headlamp cover for cooling and traction.
I wanted to loose the alt. weight and I was throwing alt. belts. I found this new on EBay for the price of dirt, only one other bidder. Also, Jacobs was bought out by Prestolite and they threw away the parts and components for the FR units. They are no longer available new.
A good friend of mine who runs a NHRA National event winning Super Stocker Dropped 2 tenths off his mid eleven sec. car by kicking the voltage up to 16V.......EVERYTHING works better at the higher voltage.
Assuming you're using the LM/SMEC/SBEC built-in voltage regulation, the ECU already kills the alternator when at WOT. The problem is, the battery volts then will drop to as low as ~10.5 volts on a sinlge 1/4 mile pass (in my car at least). I'm conerned about spark energy and injector pulsewidth at those voltages. We do have the latency table that should at least partially compenste the injector PW. And, I added the dwell time compensation from battery volts to T-SMEC for this very reason. But, I'd still prefer to have 12+ volts at the end of the run.
I don't see this thing taking 3 tenths off my 1/4 mile time, though. Maybe on a V8...
Seriously? I never knew that.
But, to think about that, I've been in some slower cars and was at WOT for a good bit and never saw the headlights dim or anything.
With fuel pump and fan on in my OMNI and engine not running, it doesn't take long to hear the voltage go down via pump musical notes...
Does the alt come back on at WOT when the battery gets to X voltage or when X amount of time has passed?
Indeed, I dont think that is true...at least not with the LM. It's an interesting idea, though.
Well, damn, you made me go look and now I don't see it in the code. But, I know the cal I've been running in my race car does it - I've datalogged the bat volts and it does drop thru the whole run down to ~10.5 volts. As soon as I lift, it pops back up to ~13.5v.
The cal in my race car is a stock-based cal (haven't had enought track time this year to tune a T-SMEC cal for it and it's fast with the current cal). I seem to recall I may have made some kind of modification to it to get it to stop charging at WOT. Let me check into it some more...
Hehe. My memory works similarly. My daily driver (Frankentona) has a S70. I do a fair amount of city driving so it's pretty much floored most of the time. Were this true, I'd have to put my car on the charger every night like an electric car. ;)
No, my race cal definitely has it. I'm thinking this is something I added a long time ago and forgot about. I need to dis-assemble that section of my race cal and see what I did. I hate it when I forget $hit... lol...
Yep, I found the dis-assy of my race cal. The alternator cut at WOT was a modification I made. I totally forgot about it and thought it was stock. Well, it's going in my terminator code, now...
Sorry for the off-topic discussion, back to drooling over Warren's car...
Hey warren, your car ain't good nuff.
I would go with a Motobatt battery. I just ditched my completely smoked PC680 Odyssy and am using a 21AH Motobatt that weighs the same and has also been shown to take abuse unlike any other of the SLA batteries.
The below thread shows these batteries doing 50 start attempts in a row (unassisted) on a V10 Triton, then other huge abuses like hooking them up to a flood light overnight multiple times, draining the batteries completely, charging them, etc etc etc.
You will like that read. It even shows how the batteries retain voltage over time when they have been abused.
After all the abuse the Motobatt comes out on top, the Odyssy (which is just an overpriced Genesis) is 2nd.
http://boulevardowners.com/cafe/inde...topicID=157926
Seems like the right choice for how much your electrical system will abuse the batteries. The Motobatts are also a lot cheaper then the rebadged Genesis batteries so when you are forced to replace them at a longer interval then any other battery, it will be cheaper. I bought mine on their Ebay store and it arrived 3 days later on basic shipping.
BTW I wouldn't bother with the metal jacket versions Of Odyssy. My friend showed me you can just pry off the metal. It is just a metal case stock on with a hot glue gun, and you already have a nice metal case.
BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.
But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table
Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
6v 500% correction
8v 248% correction
10v 168% correction
12v 128% correction
14v 102% correction
16v 88% correction (Warren Land)
And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.
The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.
When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and :yuck::yuck::yuck:
Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.
For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.
Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1 :)
The Electromotive Tech EFI that I run has adlustable low voltage compensation so it has never been an issue for me with an alternator. I would never want to shut down the alt on my car during WOT. (unless you had another way to keep the voltage up) the LAST thing I want is current and voltage to ramp down or change at all. It causes too many tuning varyables, how can you accurately predict optimun injector PW when fuel psi and volumn are a moving target because of system voltage change?
What about ignition system current change? Ive always tried to eliminate as many variables as possible for max consistancy.
No, I got that. It was an off-topic side discussion about our cals.
It's not Reeves car, it's mine that shuts off the alternator at WOT...Quote:
But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table
The table I added to my SMEC code is very similar.Quote:
Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
6v 500% correction
8v 248% correction
10v 168% correction
12v 128% correction
14v 102% correction
16v 88% correction (Warren Land)
Quote:
And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.
The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.
When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and :yuck::yuck::yuck:
Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.
Right, that's what the injector latecy table is for - PW/voltage compensation. That's stock in our cals. Actaully, I think every EFI code every written has that...
Yes, I agree that keeping voltage up is good. However, it also takes up to 10HP to run the alternator at full speed and full load. When you're only making ~250hp to start with, that's a big difference. Of course, I don't know how much I'm giving up by letting the voltage drop to ~11V...Quote:
For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.
Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1 :)