Best Chrysler 3.0 for boost?

I'm really considering swapping a 3.0 into my 89 T2 P-body. I've maxed out the T2 without spending a bunch of money. I was thinking of going 2.4 but from what I've seen for a guy that does his own fab a 3.0 has a better dollar per HP ratio, and I've always wanted to do a boosted 3.0. Since I'm going to have to track down a motor, what's the best one to start with? I know there are some differences in the pistons depending on the year. I'm looking at just throwing a bunch of boost at a stock, refreshed motor. No piston/rod/head upgrades. At least not at first. If I go this route I'm going to go MS/auto so I don't need to worry about that stuff. It's going to be a while before I start this but want to be on the lookout for a parts car.

Thanks!

You would probably want an 87-early 92 engine. Lower compression, more meat between ring lands, stronger skirts. They started putting roller cams in them after 89 or 90 if you want roller rockers.

Ondonti will probably chime in since he has ran 11's on a stock 3.0.

Get the roller heads for sure. I have never used an older full skirt 1.5 1.5 4.0 ring pack 3.0, the newer ones are 1.2 1.5 3.0 slight "slipper" piston. The newer pistons like to break. Heard a decade ago that the older ones do too but never seen the evidence. SixPackDan recently said he hurt a piston on his ~15 year old M90 supercharged 3.0 setup and I think that might be an older style shortblock.
IMO if its just a car for fooling around, you could go even bigger than I did on ring gaps and maybe get away with a lot. E85 out there?
I don't have facebook messenger on my phone and no internet at my house for awhile so I can't check facebook messages unless I visit my parents. I saw you sent one.

BTW, Kyle up in Canada who had his 3.0 smoking at the meet just threw in a spare piston this week. I didn't even get to ask what his ring gaps were.

IMO many engines are pretty easy to get lots of power out of if you spend the $ on the fuel system. I still haven't purchased proper large injectors. The bill starts getting huge when you want a high power E85 machine. I ran out of fuel system every time I had problems. Went twin fuel pumps and later megasquirt but without an adjustable rising rate regulator my little injectors can't do much on Ethanol fuel. 500hp on gasoline is a lot more depressing when you throw E85 into your maxed out fuel system.

Figure out how much power you want on a stockish motor and then how much on a possibly forged piston motor. Price out the turbo and fuel system for the forged motor and make sure that seems reasonable. Add an inline booster pump (like an 044 denso or something even newer) if you have an in tank Walbro 255. Then you could possibly try cheap large injectors. I keep wanting the expensive ones. With the aforementioned fuel pump setup you will probably need to put a 5/16" return line in at least. Just swap in another OEM feed line in place of the 1/4" stuff.

AND, if you really want to ghettofab, you can try some cheap cast VR4 pistons. My favorite is the 10:1 diamante motors because E85 likes high compression.

Huge ring gaps and very cold spark plugs will get you a long way shortblock wise. Cheezit has been eating automatic transmissions so I am a bit paranoid about a boosted 3.0 3 speed even though I want to try it for the same reasons you do. Would be fun to build a 3.0 verson of Milkcartons featherlight streetfighter P body.

My daily driver 3.0 seems like it costed too much to build if you consider purchase price on parts I already own. The parts you already have for your car like that srt4 intercooler, not gonna work, etc. First mistake I ever made years ago was buying too large of a turbo for what I originally wanted and then I kept having to go bigger on things that I couldn't afford to buy.

Annoying costs for even a ghetto setup
BEGI 2035 regulator, $300+
Injectors (used) $150+
Intercooler $100+
MISC bends, flanges, couplers, T bolt clamps, subpar oil lines $300+
turbo (was free but) $200-1000
Wideband ($200 for a a low quality one)

And surely missing a bunch of other things. You need plenum spacers if you want an over transmission turbo location. Those cannot be purchased anymore. Have to make them.


At least you can weld manifolds and downpipes! Also nice that megasquirt doesn't cost much more than a high model BEGI regulator.

Have you considered a 24-valve 3.0 or 3.5L?

If you want a 3.0 24v setup, Shadow24 is selling his drivable car dirt cheap.

Ed Kelly
KMPerformance.com

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Cheezit has been eating automatic transmissions so I am a bit paranoid about a boosted 3.0 3 speed even though I want to try it for the same reasons you do. Would be fun to build a 3.0 verson of Milkcartons featherlight streetfighter P body.

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I think you are thinking of lightbulb010. Not sure if he is on TM. Also funny you should say that because I feel like at one point your duster was pretty analogous when it ran 11s on stock shortblock 3.0.


There is probably a way to spend a lot of effort or get lucky to do it cheaper, but I think if you want to do it 'quickly' and cant wait to piece together deals or fabricate stuff, the cheapest/easiest way is actually to use Ed's rear mount turbo manifold. You don't have to flip the plenum, don't have to fabricate new kickdown/throttle valve linkage for a 3spd, don't have to relocate or protect any of the wires over the bellhousing, etc etc. I feel it's just way easier to put together. It just has a higher up front cost that probably pays for itself in saved time and less modification required.

I am a fabricator by trade, and just bought a TIG for home use. Ill be building the turbo system, and a new intake mani. I already have a 4bar ms1 w/spark setup and will be using that. For a turbo I will probaly use a VGT holset, I have a couple.

Goals? Go fast as possible lol.

Ahh, well cool then. Seems like a 90-92 engine would be the best starting point if you wanted to do stock pistons.

I've actually have a 89 3.0 from a spirit I parted years ago. It had a "noise". Looking back on it it's probably a wristpin. Pretty low miles if I remember right. I think it had 110k on it. If that's a good motor to use I will just rebuild it. So that saves me a headache, but I still need a tranny. The motor is bolted to a 604 that's actually good but unless there is some huge leaps made with those tranny soon I don't want to use that.

Any big advantage of going to the 24v motors?

Tons of 3 speed vans in the junkyard. Vigo, I think 3 speed auto would have made a crazy difference on my p body and my terribly slow shifting. Re

I don't know that cylinder heads make make a difference on stock rods for power potential. 12v heads to push coolant like dohc heads do thanks to weak chambers. Depends how hard you power us and how much timing you run. Not solved by studs but by stanchions in the coolant passages. I might partial fill one set of my heads that were decked a lot if they have Issues as i get going again. Sohc 24v probably has same problem I only know mivec heads solve this. I have pushed at 280hp and mid 500s. Both of those were mostly due to knock.

87turbodance ran a 3.0 on ms1 I think it's more complicated. Maybe not.

The MS setup I'm going to have to do some research on. Its setup for a neon. The nice thing is I have the 3.0 board so upgrading to MS2 is very easy.

Any idea of what the VGT is capable of HP wise? I belive the cold side is identical to the big HE holset. To start I dont plan on running it as a VGT. Im going to build a locking adjuster and mark it at 8, 10, 12, and 14cm. Then just play with it and see what works best. I actually have a pair of them but I think twin VGTs would be to much even if I locked the hotside at 6-7cm lol.

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Originally Posted by ShadowFromHell

The MS setup I'm going to have to do some research on. Its setup for a neon. The nice thing is I have the 3.0 board so upgrading to MS2 is very easy.

Any idea of what the VGT is capable of HP wise? I belive the cold side is identical to the big HE holset. To start I dont plan on running it as a VGT. Im going to build a locking adjuster and mark it at 8, 10, 12, and 14cm. Then just play with it and see what works best. I actually have a pair of them but I think twin VGTs would be to much even if I locked the hotside at 6-7cm lol.

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I think a twin setup would be cool on some stuff I am doing but they are heavy, imagine a pair! Would be interesting to know how it spooled on the tiny side of life, even as RWD twins.

If you want your setup to be nastier I would look into at least a mechanical controller. Be a lot easier to get up on boost when its adjusted to a tiny A/R.

I've read everything I can about the VGTs since pulling them out of the dumpster at work. The best setup I've seen is building a stop at a minimum say 7cm. Then let the drive pressure open it up, using a spring to control how fast/how much. But it's a variable I don't want to mess with when tuning a new setup. Eventually I will use it has a VGT. That's part of the reason for using that turbo, I think it's cool technology that can really make some power while keeping spool low.

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I forgot to add... my shadow isn't a normal shadow. It's actually a 89 CSX. The pureists are gonna freak when I put a V6 in it haha.

I don't think two of them would be too much for a 3.0, just too damn space intensive and too much extra weight. I have been sitting on one for my 3000gt and want to rear-mount it for space/weight reasons.

Turbo 3.0 89 csx sounds pretty good!

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Vigo, I think 3 speed auto would have made a crazy difference on my p body and my terribly slow shifting.

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Oh I agree, but I've long since gotten used to thinking of your builds in terms of what they would ET with someone else driving! hahaha
All of your setups have been faster than your best ET except maybe the dd spirit.

Im going auto just to prove auto cars work. All my local buddies think ive lost my mind for wanting to auto swap my csx. I have a T2 NY that is a auto and it is RIDICULOUS how easy it is to launch and launch consistently. I like to run on the street (ya ya I know its bad...) and I'm down to do ANYTHING to get my cars to hook out of the hole! Our cars make so much more TQ then a typical turbo 4 I need all the help I can get!

You are going to need some giant tires to do what you want to do. 26x10's on the street.

Ive got a set of 255/60 15s I'm going to try to fit on the front end. The MS I have has boost control. It can be set by rpm, tps, and I believe speed. Im hoping to use that to help with traction.

cool. auto turbo 3l? i mean brian slowe runs the 3speed so its possible to make one live.

id want a controller that measures drive pressure vs boost pressure and if its higher than 1:1, open up the wastegate some more. how to do that mechanically, i dunno.

I seem to recall turboshelbys went ~13.6 with an auto-converted (Still 8v, maybe still vnt?) 89 csx. Might want to try searching for that.

Aries_turbo you have really got my gears turning! With a dual diaphragm wg can hooked to the arm of the VGT I think you could acomplish what your suggesting. Feed one side boost pressure and the othe drive pressure. They should fight each other and try to equalize the pressure, holding it at a 1:1 ratio... right? The drive pressure should push against the boost pressure. If the drive pressure is higher it will overcome the boost pressure and open up. But should be controlled because the boost pressure is fighting back and not letting it just go wide open...

Sound like it would work?

But you couldnt let it see drive pressure until the desired boost was reached or it would never build boost. But I dont want to clutter this thread with VGT stuff. Ill make a new post in the turbo section. I think we are really onto something here!