Chrysler 3.3/3.8 Performance and Info

Hey all, I have something similar posted over on the other forums, but there hasn't been much activity around there lately. So I was hoping there might be more discussion on this forum, as it seems to be more active.

This is just a list of things that I’ve compiled in regards to the 3.3/3.8 engine family, including; performance parts, mods, projects, and swaps.

I’m hoping to spark some discussion on these engines because they’re so cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, and they’re literally everywhere. I’m sure there isn’t a junkyard on this earth that doesn’t have a 3.3L. So it’d be a really cheap thing to swap into a car.

General Information:

• ECU Codes
  
• ECU Signals
  
• 3.3/3.8 Engine Specs
  
• 3.3/3.8 Allpar Info
  
• Connecting Rods
  
• 3.3/3.5/3.8/4.0 Engine Info
  
• Shelby Can Am | Book | Wiki | Allpar | Intrepid Forums

Performance Parts:

• Crower Cam’s Valve Springs

Discussion | Summit Racing Page

• ARP Bolts

Here is a thread for a lot of ARP info, but the Chrysler 2.2/2.5L engines also share the same headbolts as the 3.3/3.8 family, which I confirmed here, which means ARP head studs and bolts are also available for the pre-2001 heads

• Lifters

If you look up the part numbers, the 3.3/3.8 share the same lifters as the Dodge Magnum engines such as the 3.9, 5.2, and 5.9. There are performance lifters available that should work, but probably wouldn’t see much benefit.

• Pistons and Rods
  
  
  • Ross Pistons sells different kinds of pistons for the 3.3 but I’m not sure on the pricing.
    
  • The Chrysler 3.5L has a fully forged rotating assembly and uses the stroke of a 3.3L and the bore of a 3.8L, so in theory, you could use a set provided that you use a 3.8L crankshaft

• Windage Tray

Since the 3.3/3.5/3.8 are all in the same family, the 3.5L oil pan windage tray is an easy bolt-on that may increase reliability and performance.

Boosted Applications:

• Turbo’d 3.3L in a Dodge Intrepid | Part 2
  
• Turbo’d 3.8L in a Dodge Dynasty (Not Finished)
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L Dodge Dynasty | Video
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L in a Plymouth Reliant (Later swapped to N/A 3.8L)
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L Sandrail | Pictures and Videos
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L in a Dodge Neon (Not Finished)

Engine Swaps:

It should be pretty easy to swap any existing 3.3L car with the torquey 3.8L without much trouble, but it’s also possible to swap either engine into other cars because of it’s small size. Being an OHV V6, it takes up about as much room as the 2.2/2.5 with a turbo. Some of these are duplicates of the above list.

• Dodge Daytona with 3.3L
  
• Turbo’d 3.8L in a Dodge Dynasty
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L in a Plymouth Reliant
  
• Turbo’d 3.3L in a Dodge Neon
  
• RHD Dodge Neon with 3.3L
  
• Dodge Neon with 3.3L (First Neon swapped to 3.3L)

Transmission:

There seems to be a few transmission options for this engine

• T-850 5-speed Manual (From a 2.7L V6)
  
• 31TH/A-413 3-Speed Auto (Bolts up with some modification)
  
• 41TE 4-Speed Auto (Upgrades available, thanks to PT Cruiser GT)
  
• A606 4-Speed Auto (A 41TE mounted transversely)
  

Stroker Motors:

Since the 3.3/3.5/3.8 all share the same platform, it’s very easy to swap rotating assemblies between each other (3.5 requires machine work, but is a fully forged crank). Making a ~3.5L stroker motor does decrease the compression to around ~8:1, ready for boost!

• 3.5L OHV Stroker
  
• Chewie’s 3.6L Beast
  
• 4.0L Stroker (Not Finished)
  
• 3.8L Stroker

Here’s also a pretty cool video of a 3.3L with ITB

So a cool no holds barred build would probably go as follows:

• 3.3L Block
  
• 3.8L Crank
  
• 3.5L Pistons
  
• 3.5L Rods
  
• Late 3.8L camshaft (or custom turbo cam)
  
• P&P Heads
  
• Larger Valves
  
• Dual Valve Springs
  
• Performance Lifters
  
• HY35 Turbo
  
• E85

That’d probably make some pretty decent power.




There isn’t a lot of information on these engines regarding performance, but this is what I’ve found so far. If you see that I missed anything or have any information that you think would be helpful to add, just let me know! Also feel free to ask any questions! I’d be happy to answer!

Quote:

---

The Chrysler 3.5L... uses the stroke of a 3.8L and the bore of a 3.3L

---

That's backwards. :)

Quote:

---

31TH/A-413 3-Speed Auto (Bolts up with some modification)

---

Have you ever seen one bolted up? I've lined a 3.3 up with some 3 and 5spd transmissions on the ground and it doesn't look like the mods required are simple. IMO.

How about, what mods are actually required to make power, and which are a waste at lower HP levels. Building a nasty shortblock that doesn't make power is a waste.

I can't edit the original post, the field is empty. So oh well.

And yeah, I'm actually building a 3.8L right now. It's stock right now. But I'm going to be recording the mods I do to it for power. From what a lot of people say (you can find them in those forum posts) is that the camshaft is a huge problem in these. With a custom grind you should be able to pick up 30HP alone, but that's just hearsay. The thing is, these motors can make good power. Like the Can Am car. It's a 3.3L with a forged crank, rods, and pistons. May have a different cam, but the main differences are the valve springs, rotating assembly, and the intake. Other than that, it's very close to stock. Even the heads are the same.

We'll see. I really curious on what the motor will do so I there's lots of testing that I'm going to be doing. It may take a long time, but we'll see.

The 3 speed bolts up supposedly with just "slotting" the mounts. I have a A413 sitting around, I'll see if I can get it to bolt up.

Well, you can interchange the transmission mount between a 3spd and 4spd auto by slotting holes, but to my knowledge you cannot bolt any of the 3spds to the 3.3/3.8 bellhousing pattern by slotting anything. Let us know if you find out otherwise.

Plus the 3.3/3.8 have a tone wheel on the converter for crank sensor...

It's on the flexplate, not the converter, luckily. The 604s use two sizes of torque converters, but the smaller of the two IS the 413/670 lockup converter. As far as swapping a 3spd onto a 3.3/3.8, there is a factory flywheel that works with the starter location and with the smaller 413-style converter (same bolt pattern), but you WOULD have to make your own precise hole in the transmission to mount the crank sensor to. I think late 670s had the crank sensor hole in the same place as the 3.3/3.8s, but i'm not sure the 670 would be the easiest bellhousing to adapt vs a 2.0 or 2.2 bellhousing. The 543 i lined up with a 3.3 looked like it was going to take a lot of work.

I got the attachment location of the tone wheel wrong, sorry about that. But the main point was still conveyed...that needs to be thought of...

I'd have to look through my PMs on how Jimbo mounted the transmission and such. I think he uses the 2.7L tone wheel and ran the code as a Neon motor but added two cylinders in MegaSquirt.

The 2.7L flywheel and 2.7 T850 from the rare 2.7 5spd cars have the trigger ring and sensor mount to run the engine. The spacing and orientation of the flywheel/flexplate holes for the crank sensor are the same on all the v6s that used that bellhousing-mounted cps. So you could take a flywheel from a 1990 3.3 or a 1998 3.0 or a 1995 2.5 or a 2004 2.7 and all of them would trigger the sensor correctly for each other. AFAIK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vigo

The 2.7L flywheel and 2.7 T850 from the rare 2.7 5spd cars have the trigger ring and sensor mount to run the engine. The spacing and orientation of the flywheel/flexplate holes for the crank sensor are the same on all the v6s that used that bellhousing-mounted cps. So you could take a flywheel from a 1990 3.3 or a 1998 3.0 or a 1995 2.5 or a 2004 2.7 and all of them would trigger the sensor correctly for each other. AFAIK.

---

Pretty sure '04 would be different, as they switched everything to NGC controllers in '03 which use a different tone ring on crank and cam. IIRC it went from 16T to 32T one the flywheel. Me and a buddy put an 03 2.7 into an 02 Sebring and had to pull it back out and change flexplates and cam tone wheel to make it run.

Ah, that sure sounds right then. I knew the NGC changeover was the end of it but i forgot the year.