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Hey guys,
I will be putting a 6 puck clutch into my van with an a523, and I'm wondering has anyone made a clutch damper system to lessen the shock the the transmission? I want to keep my trans and axles from breaking, while still having the clamping force of a ceramic puck clutch.
My plan is to purchase a small adjustable rebound damper and attach it to the clutch lever, and tune the engagement firmness.
Thanks
Sounds like a fantastic idea. If you could get it tuned in properly it would make it almost impossible to break an axle while going straight.
I know some cars like the EVO's and LS1 4th Gen Fbodies used restrictors in their hydraulic lines to ease clutch engagement, in an effort to keep the driveline alive.
I don't think they work so well on aftermarket performance clutches that really are not intended to slip much.
Here a link to a setup using a screen door cylinder as a "cushioner"
Seems like a neat idea! I think DJ engineered this deal.
Thanks
Randy
http://grannys.tripod.com/hillbillyclutchslipper.html
I think that guy engineered it?
That product is still available. How would you fit something effective AND small in the actual engine bay?
Our vendors could start producing carbon carbon clutches.....
I think it would be really awesome if the Clutchtamer was able to function differently after the launch. Whatever you dial in for your launch will happen on each gear. It can do some cool stuff for launching soft and fast but... Maybe you would need two and some way to instant disconnect after launch. It would be perfect for the slip to avoid bogging launch I think JT should be doing in his car to avoid shockloads.
My idea of it would be to just prevent shock to the transmission. Especially if I decide flat foot shifting is a good idea haha.
Having a slower rebound for just the launch is interesting though. Then you could dial in the perfect launch every time.
The shock would go between the clutch lever and the part of the case where the clutch cable housing seats. I'll have to look for dampers that fit that space, and test them out.
I only found the link Randy, not one of my creations. It's a great idea using common items but for my own personal vehicle I'm looking at a more refined approach. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GLHS60
I was just jazzing you DJ!!
Thanks
Randy
I dont think anyone in our community has ever broken something PURELY from a rolling upshift. I think in general we do damage on launch and IF it survives the launch, it may finish dying on an upshift. Dialing in a 'perfect' launch is, in my opinion, the biggest use of something like this.Quote:
My idea of it would be to just prevent shock to the transmission. Especially if I decide flat foot shifting is a good idea haha.
Having a slower rebound for just the launch is interesting though. Then you could dial in the perfect launch every time.
Perfect to me would be if you could get 1.8X every time and never break anything. I know some people want to go 1.7 or better but my (maybe rude-sounding?) opinion is that if someone isn't doing at LEAST low 12s already they should be trying to make more power rather than risking breakage trying to go from 1.8 to 1.7 etc. That is just my .02.
If you wanted to experiment with something like the ClutchTamer for launch only and effectively disable it during shifts, a simple drop-out shim/spacer between the delay knob and dash bracket will allow you to do just that. That said, I believe you will find your car quicker, AND less likely to break something, using controlled clutch slip during shifts. Even cars with clutchless transmissions still want the clutch to slip during the shifts. Clutch slip during the shift allows the engine to retain more rpm, so less time/energy is spent spinning up the rotating assy after the shift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondonti
Grant
Here's a link to a hyd damper that would likely fill the bill... http://www.airoil.com/v6/contents/en-us/p28.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by jefo
Simple bracket is all it would take to put one behind a release fork.
Grant
I am thinking about saving shifts AND maximizing launches. 2 step, preload, clutch tame 1st gear with very aggressive slip (i don't mind eating up my cheap infinitely replaceable disc). On upshifts I just want to take out a little shockloading. I do want to avoid upgrading drivetrain parts which for our vehicles are all custom.Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchtamer
Do you mean just pull something out by hand and have a retaining loop to prevent the tamer from falling down any farther? Its your product so you can picture it much better.
The other way to run would be a mild setting and rely on a low rpm 2 step and heavy manual clutch slip to prevent a bog. The Clutch tamer would be functioning as a failsafe device on launch in case you make a mistake and then protecting upshifts.
You can run 13's with a 1.70 60' or 10's. Improving the 60' doesn't get you far in the FWD world. Oh man it sure doesn't get you far on a budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigo
When you consider how drastic of an effect the 60ft time has on ET, and ET is what turns in the win light, I'm not sure I follow you here.
Well, for one thing you're auto.
But I think what he's saying is if you're on a low budget and cant afford to break your car over 2 tenths of ET, trying to 60' the piss out of your car is a poor idea. Maybe like the (multiple?) times that Ondonti had a 120+mph car on a literal ramen budget and never got off the line due to axle breakage. It's probably not very relatable because very few people have ever built a fast car on a literal ramen budget.
There are SOME people at the track for whom the $20 entry fee is food for a week and a $60 axle or, much worse, a TOW home, are serious penalties.
WOT rpm drop is an energy component that you want to minimize, as it represents stored inertia energy being discharged from the rotating assy into the transmission's input shaft. This is a temporary discharge of additional energy, in excess of the energy the engine is putting out. That power surge is only temporary though, and that temporary energy gain will be offset temporarily energy loss as the engine re-gains that lost rpm.
How quickly the rotating assy loses rpm generally determines the intensity of that energy discharge. Say a 2000rpm drop occuring over .3 seconds delivers a 400ft/lb torque spike to the transmission's input shaft, spreading that same 2000rpm drop over double the time period (.6 seconds) effectively cuts the intensity of that torque spike in half (200ft/lbs), much less likely to break parts.
Ondonti, here's a link to my original DIY lo-buck install. That same original cylinder is still on my car today, the only change i made over the years is to swap out the double nut arrangement on the "initial hit" adjustment (pain to adjust), for a dial with a built-in detent... http://grannys.tripod.com/hillbillyclutchslipper2a.html
That drop-out shim/spacer i was referring to in the above post was simply a u-shaped shim inserted between the outer knob and the dash bracket, inserted before the pedal is depressed before launch. When the pedal is then released on launch, that shim will drop out to the floor. The result is that the cylinder's rod will not be pulled out as far for the shifts, reducing the amount of ClutchTamer effectiveness. Thickness of that shim determines how much less delay on shifts, about 1/4" of shim effectively eliminates any delay.
Grant
Because on your 10 second passes you 60'd 0.05 seconds faster than me when I ran 13's. I surely could have 60'd harder and still ran 13's by beating up my drivetrain even more. Or just not bother with it because there is in fact almost no time to gain for those 13 second passes when it came to 60' and if you add in a bunch of power to run 10's you already have the 60' "good enough."Quote:
Originally Posted by contraption22
Being able to make a pass and work on the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 is where the real gains are once you are not doing street tire 60's. The old 60' adage only goes so far FWD and turbo-mopar Times proves it.
Counter to what most racers tend to believe, a softer launch does not necessarily mean a slower pass, or even a slower 60'. An "artificially hard" launch (one using flywheel energy, aka "rpm drop") forces compromise in chassis setup to accommodate the energy surge, compromising potential as well. Without that artificially hard launch, one can switch to a more efficient chassis setup for a given power level... allowing smaller tires, more air pressure, lighter drivetrain parts, less shock control, etc. These chassis improvements reap benefits throughout the entire pass.
On the flip side, if you already have the bigger tires and more robust drivetrain parts, that smoother power profile will allow you to crank up the power.
Better 60's, quicker passes, less wear/tear on the drivetrain. To most racers, that sounds like a pitch line from an infomercial.