2.2L TII Head Issues

1989 Chrysler TC - 2.2L TII Motor.

So basically I was having a boost issue where I was only able to hit 4 psi of boost. Someone suggested unplugging the vacuum line from the waste gate. I did this and was pretty easy on the throttle the first time and got the boost to hit 14 psi. Then the second time I did it, it got away from me and hit 17 psi before boost cutting. The car was running fine, I parked it and hooked the vacuum line back up to the wastegate.

The next day I came outside to start the car and it was having issues starting and I had to give it gas to start it. Smoke started coming out from under the hood and I seen the smoke was coming from the catch can breather. I unscrewed the oil fill cap and a lot of smoke started coming out of there as well, smoke was also coming out of the dipstick port.


VIDEO OF SMOKE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ0M...ature=youtu.be


Decided to remove the top end today. Bottom end of the motor looks fine but the bottom of the top end has some pitting which I think is from the broken pieces off of the spark plugs. Cylinder 1-3's spark plugs had the white material around the tip broken off. Cylinder 3's spark plugs gap was completely closed causing the tip and the metal to be touching. Cylinder 4 was the only spark plug that looked in good shape.

Below are pictures of the pitting as well as these cracks that i'm not if they are okay or not. Basically i'm trying to get answers on what was causing the smoking as well as if I need to get a new head/resurface the head.

Thank you!


PITTING:
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...pscvmbnxkm.jpghttp://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...pshjhm93lf.jpg

CRACKS:
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...pscpvg1w9u.jpghttp://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5icarcxh.jpg

Check timing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dartswinger

Check timing

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Sorry I couldn't hear you over all your boost cut ;)

Did you do a compression test before pulling the head? I would pop the pistons out to inspect each of them at this point. I wouldn't doubt for a second that you cracked the ring lands on #3 or #4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cordes

Did you do a compression test before pulling the head? I would pop the pistons out to inspect each of them at this point. I wouldn't doubt for a second that you cracked the ring lands on #3 or #4.

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Yes I did do compression.

Cylinder 1: 75
Cylinder 2: 90
Cylinder 3: 80
Cylinder 4: 25

I'd suggest a new engine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

I'd suggest a new engine.

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Why do you say that?

This car is a project car/learning experience for me. I've been learning from @dartswinger who has built his Dodge Omni. I don't just want to buy a whole new engine. Then there is no real learning experience in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cordes

Did you do a compression test before pulling the head? I would pop the pistons out to inspect each of them at this point. I wouldn't doubt for a second that you cracked the ring lands on #3 or #4.

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+1. You smoked the engine. You are getting MASSIVE blowby, which means you broke something...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtristan18

Why do you say that?

This car is a project car/learning experience for me. I've been learning from @dartswinger who has built his Dodge Omni. I don't just want to buy a whole new engine. Then there is no real learning experience in it.

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The head is in need of serious machine work. You most likely smoked all 4 pistons. The learning experience on this one may come down to if you want to assemble everything yourself or pay the small fee the machine shop would charge. Tryingbe is right. You're going to need a good used engine to throw in there, or a fully rebuilt one in all reality.

Cyl 4 probably has a broke ring or piston, the rest are all way lower than they should be also. A decent engine should have around 110-120 psi, less and it's likely worn out. Good or fresh engines have 130-150psi.

Head should be ok to rebuild. So, either rebuild everything or find another shortblock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtristan18

Why do you say that?

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Because that engine is done for. The cost of rebuild excess the cost of buying a good condition short block.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtristan18

This car is a project car/learning experience for me. I've been learning from @dartswinger who has built his Dodge Omni. I don't just want to buy a whole new engine. Then there is no real learning experience in it.

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That's depending what you're trying to learn.

Your cylinder head have pre-ignition (knock) damage.

You learnt that running stock fuel injectors/map/stock cal/no wideband at 17 psi can destroy your engine in a blink of an eye.

if you went to 17 PSI on basically a stock motor you hae about a 90% chance you hurt a piston. or two.
The cracks in the head are pretty normal.
you cracked a piston. that you cant see.
time for a shortblock. send the head to a machine shop to be rebuilt. have them pressure check it. if it comes back okay. then roll with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

Because that engine is done for. The cost of rebuild excess the cost of buying a good condition short block.



That's depending what you're trying to learn.

Your cylinder head have pre-ignition (knock) damage.

You learnt that running stock fuel injectors/map/stock cal/no wideband at 17 psi can destroy your engine in a blink of an eye.

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I agree with tryingbe... You learned what NOT to do with one of these engines. Unfortunately, this time it's going to be an expensive lesson...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gtristan18

Yes I did do compression.

Cylinder 1: 75
Cylinder 2: 90
Cylinder 3: 80
Cylinder 4: 25

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Considering that my very worn out 2.2 in my Shelby Z was giving me readings in the 110-120 range...yeah, this engine is done. You don't want more than about a 10% deviation across all cylinders.

Cylinder 4 has most likely a broken ring land, cylinder 1 probably a broken ring.

The cracks between the valves in the head are pretty typical. However, it's still recommended that the head be pressure checked. The pitting...eh...no worries.

The fact that porcelain has broken around the electrodes and you have a ground strap contacting an electrode on the plugs, this is BAD. I find it strange that the computer didn't cut out boost until 17#. That should have saved it.

So, yes, now you are going to need to build a new engine. Depending on how original you want to keep the car, I actually suggest building a 2.5L, leave it intercooled with the Garrett turbo and with a good calibration the car will be WAY more driveable. I found my TC OK around here in town but I had to rely on boost...so it was a point-and-shoot affair. That's alright, but being able to drive a little more smoothly would be nice and the extra torque of the 2.5 would certainly help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

Because that engine is done for. The cost of rebuild excess the cost of buying a good condition short block.



That's depending what you're trying to learn.

Your cylinder head have pre-ignition (knock) damage.

You learnt that running stock fuel injectors/map/stock cal/no wideband at 17 psi can destroy your engine in a blink of an eye.

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I understand that was a risky test to run, the boost shot up so quick it was hard to let out before it was gonna cut. But it is what it is. Thanks for the information!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by cordes

The head is in need of serious machine work. You most likely smoked all 4 pistons. The learning experience on this one may come down to if you want to assemble everything yourself or pay the small fee the machine shop would charge. Tryingbe is right. You're going to need a good used engine to throw in there, or a fully rebuilt one in all reality.

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Yeah after doing compression and talking with a buddy I figured the engine was probably done for. Time to go to the junkyards and pull the engine to see how bad the damage is. Thanks!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 83scamp

I agree with tryingbe... You learned what NOT to do with one of these engines. Unfortunately, this time it's going to be an expensive lesson...

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Yes I definitely did learn. But it's part of my process. This was my first project car ever. I wasn't expecting to be able to build it all in one go and not have bumps in the road. Thanks!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reaper1

Considering that my very worn out 2.2 in my Shelby Z was giving me readings in the 110-120 range...yeah, this engine is done. You don't want more than about a 10% deviation across all cylinders.

Cylinder 4 has most likely a broken ring land, cylinder 1 probably a broken ring.

The cracks between the valves in the head are pretty typical. However, it's still recommended that the head be pressure checked. The pitting...eh...no worries.

The fact that porcelain has broken around the electrodes and you have a ground strap contacting an electrode on the plugs, this is BAD. I find it strange that the computer didn't cut out boost until 17#. That should have saved it.

So, yes, now you are going to need to build a new engine. Depending on how original you want to keep the car, I actually suggest building a 2.5L, leave it intercooled with the Garrett turbo and with a good calibration the car will be WAY more driveable. I found my TC OK around here in town but I had to rely on boost...so it was a point-and-shoot affair. That's alright, but being able to drive a little more smoothly would be nice and the extra torque of the 2.5 would certainly help.

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Thanks for the info. Gonna look deeper into the block soon. Also will be looking into some junkyards for a new engine or parts.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar

Cyl 4 probably has a broke ring or piston, the rest are all way lower than they should be also. A decent engine should have around 110-120 psi, less and it's likely worn out. Good or fresh engines have 130-150psi.

Head should be ok to rebuild. So, either rebuild everything or find another shortblock.

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Thanks for the info!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by masterjr33

if you went to 17 PSI on basically a stock motor you hae about a 90% chance you hurt a piston. or two.
The cracks in the head are pretty normal.
you cracked a piston. that you cant see.
time for a shortblock. send the head to a machine shop to be rebuilt. have them pressure check it. if it comes back okay. then roll with it.

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Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to go this route if I don't end up getting a whole new engine.

I used to break the stock pistons quite frequently, maybe once a season. I would simply buy four new pistons and a set of rings, give the bores a quick hone, reassemble and back on the road.
You definitely broke at least one piston, in fact I could hear the engine running on basically three cylinders in your video.

You can invest in a used engine with unknown internals or invest in rebuilding yours and have the piece of mind knowing it will outlast the original. Forged pistons are the way to go. Give us a call when your are ready to start.

http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/forg...tons-p-60.html

Chris-TU
602-762-6678

Bolt the head back on and do a leak down test. That will tell you where your major cylinder leak(s) are. If air comes out the intake or exhaust manifolds, it's a valve. If air comes out the crank case, it's a piston and/ or ring. You can get an adequate leak down tester on ebay for about $40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSiTGeLXvc

Have the head pressure tested at a competent machine shop before you invest in any head work. A pressure test will identify any issues you can not see. The last head I have rebuilt cost about $350. That did not include any kind of porting or modification.

Cost to rebuild a 2.2 short block is about $1500 not including pistons. I sullpied my own pistons and rings. Depending on what you buy, pistons and rings can add anywhere from $400-$700 to the rebuild cost.

i brought a used running 2.5 T1 to my local shop. along with a set of original Mahle NOS pistons.. I asked them not to turn down anything that didnt need it.
They only had to turn the crank 10 under. didnt even bore the block. New rings. new bearings. new pistons. rebuilt for 700$.

I'll be the middle ground on the engine rebuild price. Mine was $1100 about 13 years ago. It needed some decent work, but it was a good running engine when removed.