Steep Learning Curve. 2.4 into a 88 T1 LeBaron.

So, the wife's 70K original mile LeBaron 'vert p00ped the bed. Long story, but basically a bad combination of events including a bad cluster, highway driving, and the rubber seal at the cam end popping off. I honestly didn't want to mod this car, as it was so nice, but the engine issue kinda forced my hand; a good running turbo 2.2 or a rebuild will cost close to the price of a 2.4 swap from what I have read.

So now I need to swap a motor. Been hearing about hybrid 2.4/2.2s over the years, and now when I did a little digging, it appears the 2.4 swap is the better choice. I have found a bit out about the trans fitment "issues", and see that I can overcome those in a couple ways (her car is an automatic, and I will be keeping it auto for her) including the "angle bracket" and just swapping a Neon automatic in. I'm not worried about mounts, either, as that appears to be fairly simple. However, much of the rest of the swap is still a bit fuzzy to me. Can I just swap a SRT4 or PT Turbo engine in? (using the LeBaron's electronics and SMEC with a suitable cal, some fiddling with the wiring for the dizzy and a mod to the cam end and a mount) I want to make sure I at least start with a decent base for the swap without having to swap off manifolds and such from the engine I get.

How much better would driveability and mileage be after the swap? I have heard rumors of better mileage, and while that really isn't my main concern, it sure wouldn't hurt. I assume the driveabilty would be better from what I have read, and f course the performance is supposed to be night and day better than a stock T1.

if there are any build threads you can send me to that would give me a better overview, it would be greatly appreciated; I have been mostly getting bits and pieces from my searches so far.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ker&highlight=
that's the build thread for my brothers new yorker with a srt4 engine

Rich Bryant's conversion parts here.

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/index.htm

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Originally Posted by LWB

a good running turbo 2.2 or a rebuild will cost close to the price of a 2.4 swap from what I have read.

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No, not even close. 2.4 swap will be much more expensive. Main cost difference will be the stuff you need to get the engine working in your car, stuff adds up FAST!

Running 2.5 for $400. All you need is a set of injectors and a tune/ecu. Bolt in for everything else.

1989
Engine
Dodge Shadow RUNS PERFECT, ROAD TESTED, 120K $400 Cooley's Auto Wrecking USA-WI(Eau-Claire) E-mail 715-832-7163

If I swap in another 2.2, it will have to have at least as low mileage as the car. That means under 70K miles, and all the ones I see at that mileage are around $750 and up. I'm also not going to reuse the turbo with metal bits from the engine floating around in it. I think I can be all in under a grand or so for a turbo 2.4. I can find Cruiser engines for just over $500

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Originally Posted by LWB

a good running turbo 2.2 or a rebuild will cost close to the price of a 2.4 swap from what I have read.

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Not even close. If you replace the 2.2 engine with a 2.2 engine, that's all you have to replace. If you go 2.4 you have to replace the transmission (unless you're a good fabricator), new alternator and mount, power steering pump, mount, and custom lines, AC compressor, mount, and custom lines, custom radiator hoses, new air box, new intercooler plumbing, custom mounts, and then all the tuning (read socketed computer, emulator or chip burner).

I'm a profesional and I could do a 2.2 swap in one day. It took me a month working 8+ hours a day, 3-4 days a week (it was slow for me at my shop that month) to get the 2.4 in my van from start to running. I also bought a donor vehicle (a '98 N/A 2.4 Caravan) for the accessories and transmission to make the swap easier on me. I don't want to discourage anybody from attempting this swap, I just want to clear up any miss understanding that its the same as swapping the original engine a car came with or is in the same price range.

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Originally Posted by LWB

If I swap in another 2.2, it will have to have at least as low mileage as the car. That means under 70K miles

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Originally Posted by LWB

I can find Cruiser engines for just over $500

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Are you putting the same under 70k requirement for the PT engine? :confused:

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

Running 2.5 for $400. All you need is a set of injectors and a tune/ecu. Bolt in for everything else.

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Not for an '88. He's got a non-common block and if he swaps in a common block, things like timing belt covers and water pumps are different.

Depends on the seller, last time I bought a turbo dodge engine, it came with the timing belt cover, waterpump, alternator bracket, cam/crank/intermediate shaft pulleys, timing belt, drive belts, intake/exhaust manifolds, turbo, injector, injector harness, etc...

If OP is serious, I'm sure he'll call the junkyard and see what exactly comes with the engine, it could be a bolt-in, or it might needed other parts.

Its doable but it will be a lot of work. Even putting a simple TIII head on my van, took at least a week of late nights changing things, adding wiring etc.

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

Are you putting the same under 70k requirement for the PT engine? :confused:

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No need to, as it is an upgrade, any way you slice it. Stock for stock, I am downgrading from what I had with a 2.2/2.5 if it has more miles, as a stock swap is the same horsepower level. The only way I would swap another T1 is if I would end up with one as nice or nicer than what the car had. That's not going to happen cheap, or easy. I know the car's history. I won't know a JY motor as well. Now unless I am wrong, a PT is a cal and an intercooler away from 225+ Hp. The trouble to get that 2.2 or even a 2.5 to that level is the same or higher than the PT engine.

I liken it to having a nice low mileage slant six car and tossing a rod. I could just put another /6 in it, but the cost is close enough to what it would take to put a 440 in it (*for me- I've done a lot of RB swaps). The labor will be much higher, but the gain is worth it. I did the same sort of thing with my Jeep Scrambler years ago when the 258 was tired and the carb was acting up, as they all do. I swapped a Chrysler 360 into it using a combination of stock parts from Dodge and Jeep, and it worked very well. Was it a bunch of work? Depends on your perspective. I ended up with an upgrade, and if I am going to mess around with swapping a motor into that poor little LeBaron, I expect it to run at least as well as it did before the engine got hurt.

The car is too nice to just swap a tired JY motor into it. I was just thinking about how the car rode so well and was so nice, and that it was a shame that it was so piggy. Well, I sure wasn't about to swap the original engine out of a good running 70K mile car just to have more power. Now the die has been cast, and the only way I am going to keep this car is if it is more fum to drive.

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Originally Posted by A.J.

Not even close. If you replace the 2.2 engine with a 2.2 engine, that's all you have to replace. If you go 2.4 you have to replace the transmission (unless you're a good fabricator), new alternator and mount, power steering pump, mount, and custom lines, AC compressor, mount, and custom lines, custom radiator hoses, new air box, new intercooler plumbing, custom mounts, and then all the tuning (read socketed computer, emulator or chip burner).

I'm a profesional and I could do a 2.2 swap in one day. It took me a month working 8+ hours a day, 3-4 days a week (it was slow for me at my shop that month) to get the 2.4 in my van from start to running. I also bought a donor vehicle (a '98 N/A 2.4 Caravan) for the accessories and transmission to make the swap easier on me. I don't want to discourage anybody from attempting this swap, I just want to clear up any miss understanding that its the same as swapping the original engine a car came with or is in the same price range.

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^What he said. My swap is simpler than his in that I am not worried about A/C, power steering, etc, but it still quite a project. I feel it's worthwhile if you want over 400hp.

I guess you never driven a 2.5L turbo car. It is much more fun to drive than a 2.2L turbo on the street, especially with an automatic transmission. For a wife's car, I'd drop a 2.5L in and she will be happy with the torque.

Sorta agree, a 2.5 with a garrett turbo is a hoot to drive. Intercooler and exhaust upgraded as well. 12 psi with a little boost creep near 5,000rpm in my csxt runs a high 13 sec 1/4 mile at 99mph. Not to mention, full boost below 2000rpm in higher gear is entertaining too.
At any rate, there are arguably more 2.4s floating around out there at this point, and huge aftermarket support.

I got 175 whp out of my '85 2.5/Garret turbo Chrysler T&C wagon and that thing is a blast to drive around town. Also a lot less work than a 2.4 swap.

I wouldn't do the swap in your position. If the car is so nice that you want your engine to be just as nice, your first (and only?) 2.4 swap is NOT going to be that nice. It's just not. It would take pro-level fabrication to make a 2.4 swap not look at least partially cobbled together.

Trust me, I own a vehicle that was srt-swapped by someone with the ability to do pro-level work and it does NOT look anywhere near as nice under the hood as a clean, stock engine.

What you're thinking about doing has a good chance of ruining what you say you like about the car. I would just swap in another 2.2, or a 2.5 if you want a LOT more torque at low boost. I say low boost because a lot of people have made ~400tq with 2.2s, but it requires a lot less effort to get the same torque number from a 2.5 and it will make the car 'feel' faster with equivalent mods, especially with an automatic.

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Originally Posted by Vigo

I wouldn't do the swap in your position. If the car is so nice that you want your engine to be just as nice, your first (and only?) 2.4 swap is NOT going to be that nice. It's just not.

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WHAT?!?!??!?! :confused:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps09806032.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vigo

It would take pro-level fabrication to make a 2.4 swap not look at least partially cobbled together.

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Okay, I accept your apology. :p

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Originally Posted by tryingbe

No, not even close. 2.4 swap will be much more expensive. Main cost difference will be the stuff you need to get the engine working in your car, stuff adds up FAST!

Running 2.5 for $400. All you need is a set of injectors and a tune/ecu. Bolt in for everything else.

1989
Engine
Dodge Shadow RUNS PERFECT, ROAD TESTED, 120K $400 Cooley's Auto Wrecking USA-WI(Eau-Claire) E-mail 715-832-7163

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This is the steepest part of the learning curve.

Hey LWB, I see you're in Chi-town! have we met? If not, nice to meet you!

If you are looking for an engine or parts, I'm sure the SDAC-Chicagoland chapter folks can help.

As with any build, it comes down to goals, resources, effort and budget.

When I did the 2.4L swap in my Shelby Z I had access to a full machine shop, welder, etc. I'm an engineer by trade and like to fabricate stuff so it was a fun project. I also had the 2.4L motor before my 2.2L broke so money was already spent. If I didn't have the resources or engine in hand, it would still be a 2.2L today.

For reference, build thread for my money pit:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...t=badass+build