My awesome 11" brake conversion on my 87' Sundance

Thinking about going to 11"? Do it. My car now brakes the way I want it to.

The conversion was straight forward here is what I did.

1) acquire a set of 91+ spindles/wheel hubs with bolts from the donor car. Note, the ball joint pinch bolt is larger in diameter than my old one from the '87.
2) acquire a set of caliper adapter brackets from a 91+ car with 15" wheels such as a Daytona or Spirit or you can order the bracket from Rock Auto
3) acquire a 24mm master cylinder
4) acquire two 11" rotors, two 60mm calipers(the caliper(for 15" wheels) can be ordered from Rock Auto with or without brackets) and don't forget good pads
5) flexible front lines are different at the caliper so you need to replace these as well.
6) new wheel seals from spindle

Enjoy.

not to spam but I am selling my 90 daytona's 11" brakes if anyone wants to do this..front and rear disc
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...UFF&highlight=

So the ball joint in the same but just the bolt is larger?

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Originally Posted by going4speed

So the ball joint in the same but just the bolt is larger?

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I think the ball joints are technically different, but you can use the early BJ with the later bolt. I learned this one the hard way and was lucky to have a set of the later bolts from a car I had parted out earlier.

Miles, what brake hoses did you use? I have done this with my 87 Nyer, but I just moved the hose piece which holds the hose to the strut. I don't like how they are even after this so new ones are probably in order.

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ETA: I should add that Rich Bryant's pads are an excellent value and do a great job even for the occasional track duty in a lighter car.

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Originally Posted by going4speed

So the ball joint in the same but just the bolt is larger?

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I used an older style Ball Joint but used a larger diameter high grade pinch bolt.

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Originally Posted by cordes

I think the ball joints are technically different, but you can use the early BJ with the later bolt. I learned this one the hard way and was lucky to have a set of the later bolts from a car I had parted out earlier.

Miles, what brake hoses did you use? I have done this with my 87 Nyer, but I just moved the hose piece which holds the hose to the strut. I don't like how they are even after this so new ones are probably in order.

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ETA: I should add that Rich Bryant's pads are an excellent value and do a great job even for the occasional track duty in a lighter car.

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LOL, Yes I found out the hard way as well. Good thing last winter I cleaned and sorted all my bolts!

Re Hose. Woops I was not prepared for the differences on this one. I had a crusty one from a 91 P body but ended using the 87 style hoses by cutting the brass end fitting to the same shape as the 91+ with a cutoff wheel on my die grinder. So I removed approx 3/16" off the end. Seem to fit well.

Excellent!

I need to do this on the lancer when the $$ allows. That thing is too fast for 10" brakes and drums :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by chromguy

I used an older style Ball Joint but used a larger diameter high grade pinch bolt.

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Only the bolt should be different when used with the newer spindles. The ball joint is actually unchanged.

Very early cars such as 83 and older had a smaller diameter ball joint post IIRC.

There are basically 2 different ball joint families for the 85+ cars: Cast control arm ball joints, Stamped control arm ball joints. The only real difference is that the snap ring groove is lower on one (I think the cast arm version).

Strangely I am pretty sure the Neon also used the same 2 ball joints....

This includes the Neon and SRT4 aswell where the cast arm neon ball joints are the same as the 91+ cast arm ball joints and the stamped arm SRT4 ball joint should be the same as our earlier stamped arms.

I do still have Hawk pads for the 91+ front brake setup! :)

-Rich

I just installed 92 RT 11" brakes on the front of my friends GLHT. Friend didn't like the idea that most use to gain negative camber, ie; slotting the bottom knuckle bolt hole. I can't say I blame him. So we decided not to go that route. We made thin bushings so the smaller L-body bolts would fit snugly in the larger knuckles. Obviously we had knuckles thinned on Bridgeport so they would fit L-body struts. Had to also trim the side of knuckles facing the strut quite a bit, as the knuckle will bottom out on the strut body before you reach maximum negative camber travel. We also ended up trimming L-body camber bolts slightly to maximize negative camber. This allowed us to slightly further slot the yellow Koni strut holes and gain a bit more negative camber. Doing this and reassembling we were close to zero on camber at max negative adjustment. However not enough though for an aggressive autocross/street application. Slotting the upper strut hat retaining holes in the towers, gained us more negative camber. The end result is 1.1° negative camber on both sides. This is our max. negative adjustment for camber. We finished it off with Powerstop dimpled and slotted rotors along with The Hawk HPS pads. Slight adjustments also had to be made to aftermarket braided brake hoses so they would fit properly on the different style calipers. As noted in earlier posts, the ball joint also required bigger fastener hardware. Little more work to get them to fit on a L-body, but a pretty big gain in stopping power over the original GLH brakes. Make sure you have the toe readjusted ASAP, as the new knuckles severely alter the toe.
If done this several times before, but usually use 89 Daytona Shelby Z (one piece) knuckles. IMO, seems like a bit more effort required with the RT knuckles than using the 11" Shelby Z knuckles (on a L-body), but you have more performance options for rotors and pads. Vehicle runs 16" pumpers so no worries about contact with caliper or caliper adapter hitting wheel.
Todd

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Originally Posted by rbryant

Only the bolt should be different when used with the newer spindles. The ball joint is actually unchanged.

Very early cars such as 83 and older had a smaller diameter ball joint post IIRC.

There are basically 2 different ball joint families for the 85+ cars: Cast control arm ball joints, Stamped control arm ball joints. The only real difference is that the snap ring groove is lower on one (I think the cast arm version).

Strangely I am pretty sure the Neon also used the same 2 ball joints....

This includes the Neon and SRT4 aswell where the cast arm neon ball joints are the same as the 91+ cast arm ball joints and the stamped arm SRT4 ball joint should be the same as our earlier stamped arms.

I do still have Hawk pads for the 91+ front brake setup! :)

-Rich

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Thanks for that info. I saw that there were multiple part numbers and thought that it might be due to the cup in the ball joint stud for the bolt. Glad that it's not the case and I'm good to go with the method I used.

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Originally Posted by cordes

ETA: I should add that Rich Bryant's pads are an excellent value and do a great job even for the occasional track duty in a lighter car.

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Thanks for the advice, I just ordered two sets from Rich as the CSX will be jealous if she does not get a set.

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Originally Posted by rbryant

The only real difference is that the snap ring groove is lower on one (I think the cast arm version).

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I ordered the MOOG K7147 ball joint for my stamped arms but the clip position was too high and did not allow the boot to sit correctly, so I placed a couple welds on the underside just like the factory ones I removed.

personally I'm done with Moog...the quality of their material has taken such a bad turn of late.

are theses the correct brackets ? http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/c...r+bracket,1714 i have the 91+ spindles already but i heard 89-90 caravan with 15" wheels had tthe same caliper brackets as the 91+ cars, is this correct? if they are the same i could get some from the junkyard much cheaper

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Originally Posted by Fox

are theses the correct brackets ? http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/c...r+bracket,1714 i have the 91+ spindles already but i heard 89-90 caravan with 15" wheels had tthe same caliper brackets as the 91+ cars, is this correct? if they are the same i could get some from the junkyard much cheaper

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The 15 inch wheel caravan brackets and calipers are the same. The rotors are usually 5x114 so they don't work. The 14" wheel caravan had 10" rotors with different brackets and calipers that are also different than the cars because they had 60mm calipers instead of the cars 54mm ones the cars with 10" brakes had.

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Originally Posted by Fox

are theses the correct brackets ? http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/c...r+bracket,1714 i have the 91+ spindles already but i heard 89-90 caravan with 15" wheels had tthe same caliper brackets as the 91+ cars, is this correct? if they are the same i could get some from the junkyard much cheaper

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I ordered https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...r+bracket,1714 15" wheels A-1 Cardone 141210

I did this conversion to mine using a 91 r/t as a donor.. with the cross drilled and slotted rotors with RBryant Hawk pads and FWD SS braided lines... LOVE IT !!! Massive braking power with way more control
I also used Ni-co ( Nickle Copper ) lines all one piece and hydraulic flared the ends like factory so they will never rust and fail

I just received three sets of RBryant Hawk pads. One for the Sundance and one for the CSX.

The Hawk pads are fantastic, very good cold and great when warmed up.
Thanks Cordes for your suggestion on the Hawks

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Originally Posted by chromguy

The Hawk pads are fantastic, very good cold and great when warmed up.
Thanks Cordes for your suggestion on the Hawks

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Glad you're enjoying them. They did better than I thought they would in my CSX. Bang for the buck they're unbeatable.

Cords, if i'm not mistaken you are on of the editors on this site, i'd like to know if I can delete some of my messages from my inbox, can u tell me how. Thanks Errol.

Sure. Just check the boxes for the messages you want to delete on the right side of the screen. Next, scroll to the bottom of the list of messages, and select the box that says "selected messages". When the box pops up select delete messages, and then click proceed.

There was a comment made on TD that this does limit 15" Wheel selection. So I thought I would test what I have and report back

I just checked several 15" Mopar Rims on the 91+ 11"
What fit....
6" crabs ,pumpers, TurboStars and Centurion II (needed a spacer, I used a 3/16' spacer)
two aftermarket rims also fit, one was CSA by Mullen(Australia) and another unknown manufacturer.

edit: only the Centurion II required a spacer

What did not fit....
the 87' compact spare did not fit, so if I get a front flat... I will place the compact spare of the rear and use the good rear on the front . Not a biggy as I have not had to use a spare since the 70's (on a 73' Dart)

They made space saver spares for the big brakes. They're not too hard to find in the JY since so many lebarons received the big brakes.

I have two cars with the 11" rotor 4-wheel vented discs brakes: My '91 Spirit R/T (stock) and also a Shelby Lancer I converted. I also put this setup on an '86 Omni GLH Turbo that my brother now owns. The brakes work wonderfully and stop on a dime in all cases. I was watching a Motorweek video on YouTube of a review of the Spirit R/T and I'm surprised they weren't impressed with the braking performance.

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Originally Posted by cordes

They made space saver spares for the big brakes. They're not too hard to find in the JY since so many lebarons received the big brakes.

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Thanks if I run into one, great....very few TM in JY here. A few years ago, I checked around..... most laughed

and here I threw away 3 large brake space savers last year ... sorry 'bout that

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Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge

and here I threw away 3 large brake space savers last year ... sorry 'bout that

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NP,Stuff happens

Is there a write-up somewhere with a parts list, options and instructions on how to install 11" brakes on an L body? I know there are bits and pieces in various threads...

Thanks, Ralph

Part # on the Hawk pads?

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Originally Posted by turboshelbys

Part # on the Hawk pads?

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Hawk HB410F.721 D22 HPS compound
Is what is listed on the end of the box that I purchased from Rich B.His info is in a earlier post in this thread

Thank you sir

fair guess that maybe all the later cars might have the space saver for the big brakes ??

why make two if one will fit all ?

seems all the newer space savers I came across have the huge center dome

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Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge

fair guess that maybe all the later cars might have the space saver for the big brakes ??

why make two if one will fit all ?

seems all the newer space savers I came across have the huge center dome

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I parted out three 91+ P bodies and they had the standard spare.. Rats

If you want a space saver try to grab a PT alloy, iirc all pt's had 11's. Light and rust free. This style: ebay.com/itm/Wheel-Steel-15x4-Compact-Spare-Fits-01-10-PT-CRUISER-78955/282931672642

Rock Auto lists 260mm ( 10.2" ) and 282mm (11.1" ) rotors but it looks like the 282mm ones have 5x114 holes.
What rotors did you use?

...nevermind.. Rotors from a spirit with 11 brakes.