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Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
how'd you get that? That's CSXtra's setup.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Hi Errol, that is an air-to-water intercooler. The air flows from the bottom of the cooler to the top of the cooler, and the cooling water is pumped from the back of the intercooler to the front of the intercooler, where it exits through a heat exchanger (radiator) in front of the car to be cooled, then goes to a tank that feeds the pump again.
The water passing through the intercooler absorbs the heat from the air passing through, cooling the air going into the engine more efficiently than an air-to-air intercooler does...as long as the rest of the system can keep the water temperatures cool, and enough water is flowing through the cooler.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
The big benefits of water to air is packaging, shorter intake path and if you use ice you can get colder than ambient temps.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
If you plumb the coolant through your ac system you can cool the air temp down below freezing even.
[IMG]http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/...psruz3n2oj.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
If you plumb the coolant through your ac system you can cool the air temp down below freezing even.
I think that is wildly optimistic. Let's put it this way, how long does it take for a little bit of water to became ice in your freezer?
Also, a/c needs to be running for that part of the system to work. Problem is, when WOT, a/c stop running, when idle, intake manifold will get heat soak due to its location.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
plumbing through the A/C is a known awesome set up. and yes you can get it to freezing. or right above easily.
Look at "killer chillers". you want 34* water temps in your IC system?. get one.
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https://killerchiller.com/about
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
The demon uses a/c to cool the intercooler.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
masterjr33
plumbing through the A/C is a known awesome set up. and yes you can get it to freezing. or right above easily.
Look at "killer chillers". you want 34* water temps in your IC system?. get one.
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https://killerchiller.com/about
I don't think that car has a stock a/c system, it's blowing 16F in cab! So, to match that performance, get your a/c to work like that.
https://youtu.be/BR7kYFf_MaU?t=203
On this video that shows the car is actually moving, it says there is three temp probe. The big number shows aft intercooler air charge. Start 61F, towards the end, temp is at 64F, temp reduce is great at all but there isn't a freezing intake air temp there either. Note, there wasn't any hard PULLING, (a Saturn SC2 passed it!) The numbers are just from cruising the car. I can tell you from A.J.'s Megasquirt log that cruising and HARD pulling can produce every different air charge numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=_etTIzWR-bs
And I found this
Quote:
Air charge temps before installation of killer chiller system were between 164 and 165 degrees going through the traps. With the killer chiller (KC) unit our downstream temps were between 105 and 98 degrees,
So, you're not going to see any air charge near freezing temperature when you get on it.
I'm not saying there is no gain, I'm saying the gain is probably less than what everybody think it is. The way the website worded got you thinking "freezing", but in reality, the system got the intake temperature from 165F to 98F when pulling hard.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
think that is wildly optimistic. Let's put it this way, how long does it take for a little bit of water to became ice in your freezer?
Also, a/c needs to be running for that part of the system to work. Problem is, when WOT, a/c stop running, when idle, intake manifold will get heat soak due to its location.
I don't think I've been wildly optimistic in 30 or 40 years lol. I should have said water temperature not air temperature. My system got the water/antifreeze mixture below zero on multiple occasions. Intake air temperature was below ambient at times. I used a reservoir with a few gallons of coolant in it. A/C system runs in hot weather most of the time anyhow so water was freezing cold after a few minutes of engine running. Water pump ran all the time to keep water circulated even when ac compressor cycled off on wot. System worked great on the street but they made me turn off my ac at the track. More detailed info here - https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...e-build-5.html
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
Intake air temperature was below ambient at times.
I've seen the same below ambient result on A.J.'s van when he is cruising. But as soon as he WOT, the intake air temperature number goes up and up. Looking at his MS logs at the drag strip, you'll see 185F air!
http://thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dod...day%20copy.msl
MAT is intake temp
http://thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dodge/ajdrag.jpg
Some water to air intercooler system works well for the designed purpose, ie. run that 1/4 mile with ice bucket dumped into the reservoir. Other system like A.J., at low volume of air, it looks good (idling or cruising) , but as soon as you WOT, the large volume of air overcome the system and you see high intake temperature number. People are too busy look at the road and not notice their crazy high intake air temp, it wasn't until we look at his log we realized something is seriously wrong with his water to air intercooler setup.
We still don't know what was wrong with the setup, he took an easy way out by installing a large air to air intercooler and that solved his crazy high air intake issue.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Info on his water to air setup and his air to air setup? Hard to compare without specifics.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
..., but as soon as you WOT, the large volume of air overcome the system and you see high intake temperature number. People are too busy look at the road and not notice their crazy high intake air temp, it wasn't until we look at his log we realized something is seriously wrong with his water to air intercooler setup. ......
No surprise here at all, in fact I would expect it. I am a gas chromatographer and thermal transfer from Gas to solid to liquid and finally to Gas is my day job. I have mentioned details in the past and got FLAMED. All I will say, is don't expect a free horsepower lunch here. For example, yes the Demon uses the AC to cool the intake but I would guess the AC is shutdown during WOT. The excess heat energy of the intake is removed by the AC prior to going WOT. Even if it was on during WOT, it is unlikely to remove significant heat load but will reduce total engine torque/horsepower during this event as the power requirement of the AC is significant. When your AC is working, the AIS opens to raise RPM and in our cars the A/F drops. Remember, thermal transfer is only effective for turbulent flow(causes higher backpressure) and if the flow is laminar thermal transfer is very poor and relies on diffusion rather than mixing. For fun, perhaps we should run a simple calculation of adiabatic compression to 20PSI at 6000RPM and determine how much HP does it take to cool back to ambient temp. Any volunteers?
I will put on my Asbestos suit to protect me from the any flames that may arise.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
I think we are comparing apples to oranges. A lot of things would need to be considered such as compressor efficiency, boost level, intercooler efficiency, amount of water in the system etc. Also water to air or even with ice in the reservoir it would not be nearly as good as a system that has water temps consistently below freezing. If his water was 60 degrees for example his heat transfer through the intercooler would not be anywhere near what it would be with 30 degree water.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
I think we are comparing apples to oranges.
Well, ok. Do you have data on your air to water intercooler setup to how well the setup is working on your car?
Something like intake temp at the start of the 1/4 mile and intake temp at the end of the 1/4 mile.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Rob aka force fed Mopar has been running air to water for a while with good results.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thedon809
Info on his water to air setup and his air to air setup? Hard to compare without specifics.
If you're talking about A.J.'s van, info are all in there. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-Caravan-build
Specific water to air info are harder to find, but it's all there in different posts
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1062122
Air to air info
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1138443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thedon809
Rob aka force fed Mopar has been running air to water for a while with good results.
Define "good result"?
AJ's van ran 12.6s/made over 360whp using the water to air intercooler, even though the intake temp was in 185F range!!
So, what we need is intake temp data from the start of the 1/4 and the end of 1/4 or from a dyno run. If you don't have that data, all you do is guessing. Again, water to air intercooler can work great, but you need data to verify it is working well, not just guessing. We thought AJ's water to air intercooler is working well, after we verify the data, we couldn't be more wrong.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
So, you're not going to see any air charge near freezing temperature when you get on it.
I'm not saying there is no gain, I'm saying the gain is probably less than what everybody think it is. The way the website worded got you thinking "freezing", but in reality, the system got the intake temperature from 165F to 98F when pulling hard.
Air charge temps at freezing?. no.
but intercooler water temp at freezing. yup.
its a hell of a set up. amazing uses. easily toggled on and off if needed or wanted.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
If you're talking about A.J.'s van, info are all in there.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...-Caravan-build
Specific water to air info are harder to find, but it's all there in different posts
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1062122
Air to air info
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...=1#post1138443
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Define "good result"?
AJ's van ran 12.6s/made over 360whp using the water to air intercooler, even though the intake temp was in 185F range!!
So, what we need is intake temp data from the start of the 1/4 and the end of 1/4 or from a dyno run. If you don't have that data, all you do is guessing. Again, water to air intercooler can work great, but you need data to verify it is working well, not just guessing. We thought AJ's water to air intercooler is working well, after we verify the data, we couldn't be more wrong.
Are you attributing his problems with water to air setups as a whole? Or incorrectly sized cooler? I've done a lot of reading and people have had good success with water to air setups.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
Well, ok. Do you have data on your air to water intercooler setup to how well the setup is working on your car?
Something like intake temp at the start of the 1/4 mile and intake temp at the end of the 1/4 mile.
Normally my setup never got above 120 to 130 under 18 psi boost. I only logged it from the charge temp sensor which I know is very slow to respond but even on long uphill pulls it would stay around 100 degrees or so.
From 5 years ago -- https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...e-build-6.html
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
My last trip to the track, using ice water as coolant on a 90ish degree day, my charge temp at launch was 60 degrees and rose to 102 degrees over a 10.4 second pass at 26psi of boost. I think it could be better if I wasn't pulling hot underhood air into the compressor.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
I would like to point out the A.J.'s experience with intake temps with his W/A system to me is odd. I know he went through different iterations and tried different things, but *something* wasn't right. Based on what Warren and I have talked about, I don't think the Frozen Boost cores are all that great. In this case, you very well might be getting what you pay for as after going to a different core Warren has had a better experience.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
This thread has all the makings of another ported stocker vs. tubular header battle royal. Those were the days...
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thedon809
Are you attributing his problems with water to air setups as a whole? Or incorrectly sized cooler? I've done a lot of reading and people have had good success with water to air setups.
No idea what A.J.'s issue is. All I am saying is, verify the intercooler setup is working correctly under load, don't just assume because you spend a bunch of money and put it together it will work correctly under load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
Normally my setup never got above 120 to 130 under 18 psi boost. I only logged it from the charge temp sensor which I know is very slow to respond but even on long uphill pulls it would stay around 100 degrees or so.
From 5 years ago --
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4...e-build-6.html
I used the open element charge temp sensor, which respond pretty quick. Something like this. https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-GM-25.../dp/B000ECMZ20
It always seems strange to me that the longer I stay in boost the colder my charge air temperature. Maybe that just shows how heat soaked my intake manifold really is.
http://thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dod...old4thgear.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by
contraption22
My last trip to the track, using ice water as coolant on a 90ish degree day, my charge temp at launch was 60 degrees and rose to 102 degrees over a 10.4 second pass at 26psi of boost. I think it could be better if I wasn't pulling hot underhood air into the compressor.
Thanks for the data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reaper1
I would like to point out the A.J.'s experience with intake temps with his W/A system to me is odd. I know he went through different iterations and tried different things, but *something* wasn't right. Based on what Warren and I have talked about, I don't think the Frozen Boost cores are all that great. In this case, you very well might be getting what you pay for as after going to a different core Warren has had a better experience.
Yup, we know it is odd and no, we never figure out what caused it. As I said before, verify the intercooler setup is working correctly under load, don't just assume because you spend a bunch of money and put it together it will work correctly under load.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
No idea what A.J.'s issue is. All I am saying is, verify the intercooler setup is working correctly under load, don't just assume because you spend a bunch of money and put it together it will work correctly under load.
Gotcha. I would hope people would be logging IAT's. I moved my air temp sensor from the manifold to the IC pipe thinking it would be more accurate. Most cars I see these days don't put the temp sensor in the manifold. I'm assuming so they don't get heat soaked.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Csxtra, thank you for explaining that set up, ith's that first time i've seen that and it intrigued me, so thanks again, very much!!
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
There is no ac system on the planet that will operate below 32f for very long unless perhaps you live in a place with near-zero humidity. The whole reason why AC systems don't just blow 20* air everywhere is that the condensation collecting onto the evaporator core will freeze and block flow across the evaporator until it becomes an ice cube. Maybe the Arizona residents here could get away with it. For most people, blowing below-freezing air out of your AC vents is only good for putting a short clip on youtube that doesn't mention that the system will stop blowing anything some time after until you turn it off for like 30 minutes. If you could somehow change the operation of the system on the fly so that the evaporator would not drop below freezing until the cabin humidity was below a certain point, that'd be a neat trick honestly.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reaper1
I would like to point out the A.J.'s experience with intake temps with his W/A system to me is odd. I know he went through different iterations and tried different things, but *something* wasn't right. Based on what Warren and I have talked about, I don't think the Frozen Boost cores are all that great. In this case, you very well might be getting what you pay for as after going to a different core Warren has had a better experience.
I originally had a Frozenboost Type 3 A/W intercooler in my car and I was logging pressure drop and Intake Air Temps and during a 1/4 mile run I was seeing 4-5 psi pressure drop at 28psi of boost and the Intake Air Temps increased from 94 degrees at the beginning of the run to 138 degrees by the end of the run (44 degree increase), while the water temperatures only increased by 1.6 degrees from 87.4 to 89 degrees over the run. The outside temps were in the upper 40s.
After seeing those lackluster results, I had the custom A/W IC built using a bigger Bell core, but leaving the rest of the system the same (Meziere pump, Frozenboost type 101 heat exchanger, and a 2.5 gallon reservoir).
This year on Hot Rod Drag Week, I finally got the tune on the car close enough to run a decent time (12.6 @ 114.8) and had my datalogging setup working correctly. The log for that run showed a max pressure drop of 2.6psi at 34psi of boost, and the Intake Air Temps started at 134 degrees with a heat-soaked intake, dropped to 126 degrees once moving in first, then increased to 141 degrees by the end of the run (15 degree increase), while the water temperatures stayed constant at 116 degrees during the run. The outside temperatures were in the upper 80s/low90s.
The other interesting thing is that the temperature drop across the intercooler at the end of the run was 281 degrees (max turbo outlet temp was 422 degrees - sucking in hot underhood air).
After reviewing my logs, I need to do something to reduce the Intercooler water temps before the run to below ambient. I need to put in an insulated water tank and either allow adding ice, or do like RGL10, AJ, and Andrew Kane did and plumb a heat exchanger into my A/C system to pre-cool the intercooler water before a run at the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
errol
Csxtra, thank you for explaining that set up, ith's that first time i've seen that and it intrigued me, so thanks again, very much!!
You're welcome errol, thanks for starting a good thread!
Warren
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
My question is, is it a problem with frozenboost core design? Or just the size of the core? I was looking at going with the type 5.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thedon809
My question is, is it a problem with frozenboost core design?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
csxtra
I originally had a Frozenboost Type 3 A/W intercooler in my car and I was logging pressure drop and Intake Air Temps and during a 1/4 mile run I was seeing 4-5 psi pressure drop at 28psi of boost and the Intake Air Temps increased from 94 degrees at the beginning of the run to 138 degrees by the end of the run (44 degree increase), while the water temperatures only increased by 1.6 degrees from 87.4 to 89 degrees over the run. The outside temps were in the upper 40s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tryingbe
A.J. had a frozen boost water to air intercooler core as well.
Those are solid numbers telling you frozen boost core doesn't cool the boost well, nevermind freezing it.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Yeah, I think I've enough evidence of that in the various threads and discussions on it to convince that I need to be looking at upgrading my frozenboost I/C to something better. Worked good for a relatively cheap system on lower boost levels (max I ran was 25 on a spike, final tune was better at 18-20 psi). It's a good upgrade over a stock intercooler without having to figure how to run 2.5" piping around a full-size rad.
I never had any logging of intake temps, but I know after 3 back-to-back 8th mile runs, it would feel warm to the touch instead of cold like usual, and it would start getting slower. Moving on the street or highway, never had any such issue, it was solidly consistent. That's at anywhere from 18 to 22 psi on a stock Garrett. It did run a 9.24@80mph in the 8th with a horrible 2.32 60ft and 3300# race weight, so it made decent power for a stock 2.5 .
I'll run it again here shortly on my new TIII setup, but I think I will look into a better core. If I can though, I'll get some kind of datalogger and see what the temps actually are first.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vigo
There is no ac system on the planet that will operate below 32f for very long unless perhaps you live in a place with near-zero humidity. The whole reason why AC systems don't just blow 20* air everywhere is that the condensation collecting onto the evaporator core will freeze and block flow across the evaporator until it becomes an ice cube. Maybe the Arizona residents here could get away with it. For most people, blowing below-freezing air out of your AC vents is only good for putting a short clip on youtube that doesn't mention that the system will stop blowing anything some time after until you turn it off for like 30 minutes. If you could somehow change the operation of the system on the fly so that the evaporator would not drop below freezing until the cabin humidity was below a certain point, that'd be a neat trick honestly.
There is one thing you are overlooking with this line of reasoning. The evaporator can freeze solid in my car till there is no airflow coming out the vents but as long as your refrigerant is pure with no moisture inside the lines then refrigerant will still flow. The lines do not freeze inside. The cycling switch will cause the compressor to kick out if there is no heat exchange going on but if you have heat in your water then your low side pressure will still be high enough to keep the compressor on. The H valve will limit the flow of refrigerant if the Freon (Suva) gets cold but the system will always flow some to keep the compressor lubricated. That actually helps the intercooler system as your regular ac is not adding any heat to the Freon. Liquid is coming out of the evaporator instead of gas so the boiling and heat exchange takes place in your water heat exchanger instead of the evaporator. R134a boils at -15 degrees so it is theoretically able to get the water temperature down to that if it has antifreeze in it. I can guarantee the water can get below zero. My exchanger had ice on the outside of it many times. Also you need your intercooler in the heat of summer more than in winter so it is unlikely you can freeze the system unless you are racing on ice covered roads where you don’t need much intercooling anyhow.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
There is one thing you are overlooking with this line of reasoning......
This guy gets it. I'm an engineer for a company that supplies A/C compressors to car companies (being vague on purpose) and we test A/C systems and parts. When I saw your system my first thought was "damn it, he did it first".
My approach is (or will be) slightly different though. I've been DYING to try one of these puppies on my GLHS:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...id=63208&stc=1
They are refrigerant to coolant heat exchangers, with their own expansion valves (TXV). I have a bunch of different sizes, one even bigger than the one on the left. I also have a few refrigerant solenoid valves (normally open or normally closed) to shut off the flow to the evaporator if necessary. They're primarily used to cool batteries in hybrid/electric cars, but their capacity is surprising compared to their size.
All I need to do is get my GLHS to run for an appreciable amount of time without breaking. Currently putting the engine back together after ALL the valve stem seals popped off.
Thanks for your contribution to the community!
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rgl10
(Suva)
You just made my heart skip a beat! .....my God the times I've had to choke on my words and take a deep sigh when I hear people talking about the "Freon" in their cars. So few people care about the difference between R-12 and R-134a, or even what a "trade name" is.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Jeff,
Thanks for joining the discussion!
I have been considering using solenoids to switch between the stock expansion valve and evaporator and a separate expansion valve and heat exchanger for cooling the intercooler coolant, so I can either cool the passenger compartment or the intercooler with the A/C system.
Those units are EXACTLY what I had been looking for, and I had not yet found any solenoids yet. Without exposing your "secret identity" is there a retail source for these TXV/heat exchanger units and the refrigerant solenoids?
Thanks!
Warren
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turbo SOB
This guy gets it. I'm an engineer for a company that supplies A/C compressors to car companies (being vague on purpose) and we test A/C systems and parts. When I saw your system my first thought was "damn it, he did it first".
My approach is (or will be) slightly different though. I've been DYING to try one of these puppies on my GLHS:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...id=63208&stc=1
They are refrigerant to coolant heat exchangers, with their own expansion valves (TXV). I have a bunch of different sizes, one even bigger than the one on the left. I also have a few refrigerant solenoid valves (normally open or normally closed) to shut off the flow to the evaporator if necessary. They're primarily used to cool batteries in hybrid/electric cars, but their capacity is surprising compared to their size.
All I need to do is get my GLHS to run for an appreciable amount of time without breaking. Currently putting the engine back together after ALL the valve stem seals popped off.
Thanks for your contribution to the community!
Jeff
You just made my heart skip a beat! .....my God the times I've had to choke on my words and take a deep sigh when I hear people talking about the "Freon" in their cars. So few people care about the difference between R-12 and R-134a, or even what a "trade name" is.
awesome input. love the hands on tech..
and yes.. if your water intercooler system using a liquid evap core chilling you can get fluid below freezing..
The piece you show looks alot like the killer chiller water/evaportator set up.
https://www.speedlogixstore.com/product-p/kc-hc.htm
https://cdn3.volusion.com/gtmo2.k7dx...os/KC-HC-2.jpg
long term plan for the van is a AWIC frozen boost core with larger water holes.. and a killer chiller plumbed in. with a 03-04 cobra heat exchanger and cobalt pump. and 2-4 gallon tank.
I think one of the main problems with the frozen boost cores is the SMALL water inlets and outlets.. they just cant flow fast enough. the water absorbs the heat and is stuck in the intercooler too long.
That is why we are seeing INTAKE temps going up. but resiviour and tank water temps not moving. The water is doing its job in .5 a second.. but stuck in the core and low flow for 2-3 seconds..
Look at the size of the water oulets.. with a fitting on it. maybee 8-9mm holes? you cant move enough water.
400CFM of air goes through the cooler. and you can barely get 3 gallons a minute through your pipping...
http://www.frozenboost.com/images/product/type51.jpghttp://greenhulk.net/forums/attachme...3&d=1368025469
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/image...ooler_mod1.jpg
Now look at the coolant out puts on a precision and bell and holley core.
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3...0.1280.jpg?c=2
http://realstreetperformance.com/pre...054-1000_2.jpg
https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...ps1a956809.jpg
https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/...kJL-Custom.jpg
I think the main problem with the frozen boost design is SMALL coolant connections. Once I purchase my set up I had planed to have it machined for larger outlets and connections. to get that HOT coolant out faster and get some cold water into the core faster.. should equalize the difference.. if we see +40* of intake temp and only +4* in intercooler liquid temp. its a clear sign we are not utilizing enough of the coolant heat transfer abilities. I want to see my intercooler tank water temps go up 20-30* and the intake temps go up 20-30* as well.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
No, thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
csxtra
is there a retail source for these TXV/heat exchanger units and the refrigerant solenoids?
OK, there's a normally open refrigerant solenoid on the Fiat 500 BEV, and I believe it's the same unit or very similar used on the new plug-in hybrid Pacifica. They're too new to find in the junk yards, but the dealer might be able to get them if you're willing to pay those prices. Older Ford Escape hybrids have a normally closed solenoid.
The chiller on the left is a prototype unit from a few years ago that is not in production on anything I know of. The Chevy Volt has one that's similar in size to the one on the right. Don't let it's small size fool you, it's quite capable. The first gen Volt unit is bigger.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
csxtra
is there a retail source for these TXV/heat exchanger units and the refrigerant solenoids?
Thanks!
Warren
Crophex makes them.
http://www.crophex.com/products/brazed-heat-exchangers
HFM makes them
https://www.hfm-phe.com/
and FYI BMW/mercedez and audi are using these devices to cool transmission fluid. and rear diff fluid.
and Telsa uses them . the Volt has them and spark EV.
This is some blurbage about them
https://www.motor.com/newsletters/20...ecrviceQs.html
and info on them from valeo.
http://www.valeo.com.cn/en/our-activ...ement-466.html
http://www.valeo.com.cn/medias/uploa...-diaporama.jpg
teslas unit.
http://www.teslorean.com/tesla-technology/
https://article.images.consumerrepor...Model-S-shield
sanhua also makes them.
http://www.sanhuaautomotive.com/prod...ller-assembly/
So does Hell/Behr
https://www.hella.com/techworld/us/T...vehicles-1725/
:lol:
becoming more and more popular.. we had something very similar decades ago in fork lifts..
i think they were hydraulic fluid coolers.
good stuff.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
AJ ran one of these for a few years in his minivan.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
There is one thing you are overlooking with this line of reasoning. The evaporator can freeze solid in my car till there is no airflow coming out the vents but as long as your refrigerant is pure with no moisture inside the lines then refrigerant will still flow.
Don't get me wrong because i absolutely love your omni and think it's one of the most interesting things i've ever seen in this community, but I live in a state where my cars that don't have AC literally get parked more than half the year. If airflow across the evaporator stops then so will airflow across the outside of the car because... i will park it. But, I acknowledge your use of the principle you stated to achieve a specific thing. I just hate to think people are looking at vids of someone claiming their vents blow below freezing and hoping they can actually hot rod their AC system to achieve that continuously. I'd rather deal with mere 40f discharge temps than wait in the Texas sun for my evaporator to thaw.
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Re: Will somebody please explain this set up to me!!Oh! Hi every one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
masterjr33
I think the main problem with the frozen boost design is SMALL coolant connections. Once I purchase my set up I had planed to have it machined for larger outlets and connections. to get that HOT coolant out faster and get some cold water into the core faster.. should equalize the difference.. if we see +40* of intake temp and only +4* in intercooler liquid temp. its a clear sign we are not utilizing enough of the coolant heat transfer abilities. I want to see my intercooler tank water temps go up 20-30* and the intake temps go up 20-30* as well.
Maybe, but I had pretty good flow going through mine using 5/8 hose. I had almost thought it was too much flow, like it wasn't staying in the core long enough to absorb the heat. Could be wrong though. Car is almost ready to drive again, so maybe once I get some temp logging equipment I can check temps, then drill out the holes to allow 3/4 or 1" hose and see what it does. I think the exchanger fittings are at least 3/4, IIRC I had to step them down to use 5/8 hose.