Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

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09-01-2017, 08:37 AM
bamman

Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

I am looking for clutch recommendations for my 1991 Dodge Daytona. It has an intercooled 2.5 pushing a 14 PSI of boost. In a non intercooled configuration years ago with the same setup, it made 203 HP at 255 pound feet of torque at the wheels. Now that it is intercooled and not detonating I can push full boost in it at high RPM. The TII/TIII clutch setup that it has now starts to slip at high RPM at full boost. Since the TII/TIII setup is slipping now, what would be a good clutch to get for this car?

My goals on this car has already been met so there will be no performance upgrades in the future affecting the horsepower or torque. I don't drag race this car so launches are not that important to me. I do however drive in a lot of stop and go driving and traffic.

Any recommendations for a clutch or what to look out for when buying a new clutch? Money isn't really a concern for the clutch but I don't want to buy a $600 clutch when a $300 clutch will suffice.

Thanks!
09-01-2017, 08:46 AM
chromguy

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

I would recommend you give Chris at TU a call. He will recommend the best clutch and will not over recommend.
https://www.turbosunleashed.com/
09-01-2017, 08:47 AM
masterjr33

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

not needing a ton of power. or clutch , I would just suggest a stock replacement. or "stage 1" if you need it to say that.

I have a 6 puck spring hub. you do have to slip it a bit.. and its tricky..
09-01-2017, 01:32 PM
bamman

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterjr33

not needing a ton of power. or clutch , I would just suggest a stock replacement. or "stage 1" if you need it to say that.

I have a 6 puck spring hub. you do have to slip it a bit.. and its tricky..

I have the stock replacement, which is the "stage 1," AKA the TII/TIII clutch hybrid. It slips at high RPM.

Any reason you went with the 6 puck over the 4 puck? Also in terms of spring hub, is it more smooth? I would prefer a factory style experience when shifting in traffic.

Thanks!
09-01-2017, 02:29 PM
masterjr33

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

is it a new clutch set up? and pressure plate.
The clutch was in the car when i got it honestly.
and yes sprung hubs are much more smooth.
my experience with a street car and unsprung was not plesent. very chattery.
http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/scooby/clutch.jpg

As stated before you can give chris at turbosunleashed a call for reccomendations.

a t2/t3 combo with 200HP shouldnt be slipping if it is fresh.
09-01-2017, 02:30 PM
Reaper1

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

My Shelby Z was about at the same power level (225hp/291ftlb) as your car and was full weight (3115#). I ran into similar issues where it made enough torque that the clutches that were just over stock just wouldn't hold. I ended up going with a turbosunleashed.com clutch and flywheel (6-puck sprung hub purple [now black] pressure plate and the competition lightened steel flywheel). What I run is WAY overkill for that power level, but I can at least tell you how it drove. It took a little getting used to, but I had a number of people be able to jump in the car with just the simple warning that the clutch does *not* slip and with few exceptions it wasn't a big deal. The 6-puck "does" allow for just a *tad* of slip, but not much. Keep in mind, any time you are slipping a ceramic clutch it is chattering and heating up the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces. The sprung hub helps reduce engine/clutch vibrations and such being transmitted to the transmission. Unless you are going for a full track car where you will be taking things apart to inspect them and all...run a sprung hub.

As for the effort the clutch needed...it was just a little heavier than stock and the engagement point is much narrower, but it won't wear you out and you don't need to brace yourself against the seat like with a double diaphragm pressure plate.
09-05-2017, 03:04 PM
MoparStephen

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

I've been running a 6-puck sprung clutch, purple pressure plate+10mm oversized, (All from Turbos Unleashed) and a lightened steel flywheel. It's a bit rough to get the car off the line smoothly (without breaking tires loose), but MAN does this clutch grab. I can consistently bark the tires shifting into 4th gear. As mentioned, it's certainly overkill for the engine I have (2.2L T-2, dynoed around 270HP at the wheels).
09-05-2017, 06:46 PM
tryingbe

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterjr33

a t2/t3 combo with 200HP shouldnt be slipping if it is fresh.

Horse Power is a measurement for work done overtime, it is not what make the clutch slips.

TORQUE is the force that makes clutch slip, measured in foot pound or newton meter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamman

255 pound feet of torque at the wheels.

With an assumed 15% drivetrain lost, the clutch is seeing over 290 ft lb of torque. So yeah, not surprising a stock clutch will slip.

There are two vendors here that sells clutch, TU and FWD/Spec

If you want to be adventurous, there is the eBay clutch you can try. No, there is no feedback on them. You'll be the first to try.

As for sprung and unsprung clutch, unless it is a factory clutch, I will only use unspring clutch. I had a sprung clutch failure, although the products design has been updated, I will not try it again. Other people also have sprung clutch failure, if you search you will see.

As for clutch material, Kevlar has lower friction but it has the longer life while Ceramic grabs better but life is shorter. Feramic will grab hard but wear itself out in 5000 miles so it is a race only clutch.
http://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-clu...explained.aspx

Have you been to the TU website at all? Each clutch tells you what they are rated for.
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/perf...35_97_163.html

TU clutch's pressure plate have the pivot points moved, so very little effort is needed to move the clutch pedal. I'm not sure about the spec plates.

If you want long lasting clutch and don't plan to even upgrade the power nor drag race, I'd choose yellow plate and Kevlar. Kevlar can not withstand HEAT, if you ever over heat the clutch, the clutch will be toasted. If you drag race one in a while, get the ceramic clutch. I'll leave the sprung and unsprung up to you.

Also, please note brake pads uses the same material as clutch disc, though you will not find Kevlar nor Feramic...
09-06-2017, 01:43 PM
Dan H

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

If you are considering replacing it with the "T3/T2" equivalent I saw that Rock Auto has them on wholsealer closeout. It would have been just shy of $60 shpiped for me.

VALEO 52151405

Listed under 1991 Spirit R/T, since you should have a large spline.

I forget now when I found the limits of that setup with a 2.5. I know the last 2.2 setup I was running in a shadow busted springs out of the clutch hub. I pulled out the T2 disc an installed a 4 puck ceramic from Dealer's Equipment with the pressure plate and flywheel as they were. It worked well and supported a 13.5@108 on street tires without slipping.

Now I'd look at TU.
09-06-2017, 02:19 PM
Dr. Johny Dodge

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

every single organic disc I've ever had experience with from an auto parts retailer has been complete junk intended only to "repair" a car .. and not very well as they always end up slipping

these discs were only offered so they could be sold , not because they were any dam good

I would only consider buying a clutch from one of our vendors these days

when cryco first brought out the organic clutch discs in '89 they knew they were junk as they would replace them free in recently purchased cars

a friend had a new 89 shelby and it's clutch lasted ALMOST two weeks
he got the replacement for free
but it still doesn't help that his brand new car had to be ripped apart at two weeks old

infact it's pathetic

I've actually saves three old good used asbestos discs just because I know there isn't a good stock replacement
I just wish one was large spline but that happened after the change over to the organic garbage
09-06-2017, 03:55 PM
jonnymopar

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe

As for clutch material, Kevlar has lower friction but it has the longer life while Ceramic grabs better but life is shorter. Feramic will grab hard but wear itself out in 5000 miles so it is a race only clutch.
http://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-clu...explained.aspx

Ahem, according to the website, it's KELVAR, not Kevlar. :)

I already assumed the role of "that guy" and emailed them.
09-06-2017, 07:55 PM
GLHNSLHT2

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe

TU clutch's pressure plate have the pivot points moved, so very little effort is needed to move the clutch pedal. I'm not sure about the spec plates.

The Spec plates also have the fulcrum points moved. The Stage 3 sprung hub 6 puck I had in my 2.5 Daytona making about the same power on 12psi was very easy to drive. The pedal pressure was lighter than my stock T1 Omni GLH clutch. It lasted a long time and didn't wear out my friction surface on my aluminum flywheel. Though I attribute that to my driving style and not so much the clutch itself. I don't EVER slip it. Just enough throttle to get rolling, let the clutch out and go. Which with a 2.5 was a blip to 1300rpms, clutch to grab point, let out and feed the throttle in on the street. At the track it was 2850rpm clutch dumps off the line and 2nd gear burnouts to heat the tires :)

Tryingbe, question for you. With my Spec when I was idling along in 1st gear in parking lots the car would kinda "rubberband" like something in my drivetrain or the motor mounts were really really loose. A friend said it was because of my sprung hub as my motor mounts are pretty much solid and same with every thing else in the car. That the sprung hub was compressing and then letting go.

Have you experienced this with either a sprung hub or your solid hub? I have 2 cars being put together now with solid hubs so I'm curious of others thoughts on this. Thanks
09-06-2017, 09:35 PM
Chris W

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2

The Spec plates also have the fulcrum points moved. The Stage 3 sprung hub 6 puck I had in my 2.5 Daytona making about the same power on 12psi was very easy to drive. The pedal pressure was lighter than my stock T1 Omni GLH clutch. It lasted a long time and didn't wear out my friction surface on my aluminum flywheel. Though I attribute that to my driving style and not so much the clutch itself. I don't EVER slip it. Just enough throttle to get rolling, let the clutch out and go. Which with a 2.5 was a blip to 1300rpms, clutch to grab point, let out and feed the throttle in on the street. At the track it was 2850rpm clutch dumps off the line and 2nd gear burnouts to heat the tires :)

Tryingbe, question for you. With my Spec when I was idling along in 1st gear in parking lots the car would kinda "rubberband" like something in my drivetrain or the motor mounts were really really loose. A friend said it was because of my sprung hub as my motor mounts are pretty much solid and same with every thing else in the car. That the sprung hub was compressing and then letting go.

Have you experienced this with either a sprung hub or your solid hub? I have 2 cars being put together now with solid hubs so I'm curious of others thoughts on this. Thanks

We cater to this community and rebuild our clutches for less than a new one would cost. We also stand behind our products and have offered warranty replacements well beyond the standard 12k miles/12months. When James Reeves could not get a clutch from Spec that would stay together for him he approached TU. We were able to build a clutch for James to help him break into the 9's.

I would say it's a combination of your clutch springs, motor mounts and frame flex. Even if your motor mounts are solid the energy will still somewhat transfer to the frame and rebound. I had a friend that owned a charger. Every time he put slicks on the car and raced at the track the windshield wiper cowl would crack worse.

Chris-TU
09-06-2017, 10:53 PM
tryingbe

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2

Tryingbe, question for you. With my Spec when I was idling along in 1st gear in parking lots the car would kinda "rubberband" like something in my drivetrain or the motor mounts were really really loose. A friend said it was because of my sprung hub as my motor mounts are pretty much solid and same with every thing else in the car. That the sprung hub was compressing and then letting go.

Have you experienced this with either a sprung hub or your solid hub? I have 2 cars being put together now with solid hubs so I'm curious of others thoughts on this. Thanks

Don't remember. Car been down since March waiting for Microsquirt, sorry.
09-07-2017, 02:32 PM
Reaper1

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

The "rubber band" effect is from the driveline "slop". Each component has just a little...add it up and you get a car bucking along in a parking lot like a half-hearted pissed off bull...
09-07-2017, 04:41 PM
2.216VTurbo

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe

Horse Power is a measurement for work done overtime, it is not what make the clutch slips.

TORQUE is the force that makes clutch slip, measured in foot pound or newton meter.

With an assumed 15% drivetrain lost, the clutch is seeing over 290 ft lb of torque. So yeah, not surprising a stock clutch will slip.

There are two vendors here that sells clutch, TU and FWD/Spec

If you want to be adventurous, there is the eBay clutch you can try. No, there is no feedback on them. You'll be the first to try.

As for sprung and unsprung clutch, unless it is a factory clutch, I will only use unspring clutch. I had a sprung clutch failure, although the products design has been updated, I will not try it again. Other people also have sprung clutch failure, if you search you will see.

As for clutch material, Kevlar has lower friction but it has the longer life while Ceramic grabs better but life is shorter. Feramic will grab hard but wear itself out in 5000 miles so it is a race only clutch.
http://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-clu...explained.aspx

Have you been to the TU website at all? Each clutch tells you what they are rated for.
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/perf...35_97_163.html

TU clutch's pressure plate have the pivot points moved, so very little effort is needed to move the clutch pedal. I'm not sure about the spec plates.

If you want long lasting clutch and don't plan to even upgrade the power nor drag race, I'd choose yellow plate and Kevlar. Kevlar can not withstand HEAT, if you ever over heat the clutch, the clutch will be toasted. If you drag race one in a while, get the ceramic clutch. I'll leave the sprung and unsprung up to you.

Also, please note brake pads uses the same material as clutch disc, though you will not find Kevlar nor Feramic...

I know we go back and forth some Harry but this is a great post:nod:

Tryingbe, question for you. With my Spec when I was idling along in 1st gear in parking lots the car would kinda "rubberband" like something in my drivetrain or the motor mounts were really really loose. A friend said it was because of my sprung hub as my motor mounts are pretty much solid and same with every thing else in the car. That the sprung hub was compressing and then letting go.

Have you experienced this with either a sprung hub or your solid hub? I have 2 cars being put together now with solid hubs so I'm curious of others thoughts on this. Thanks

Have you had you carpet out? Is there a chance you cracked where the frame rails/horns meet the footwell? RedBox was cacked there and I could feel/hear it groan in corners
09-08-2017, 12:24 AM
jonnymopar

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2

With my Spec when I was idling along in 1st gear in parking lots the car would kinda "rubberband" like something in my drivetrain or the motor mounts were really really loose. A friend said it was because of my sprung hub as my motor mounts are pretty much solid and same with every thing else in the car. That the sprung hub was compressing and then letting go.

Have you experienced this with either a sprung hub or your solid hub? I have 2 cars being put together now with solid hubs so I'm curious of others thoughts on this. Thanks

I did a back-to-back comparison with a TU yellow plate and a 6-puck disc. I started with a sprung hub, then went to the solid hub. I didn't feel any difference at all, so it's all in the driveline for me. I'm running a 555 with unknown mileage and the original axles with over 190k miles on them.

Not for nothing, my Neon with 201k miles on the axles and 167k on the transmission and a bone-stock obviously sprung-hub clutch "rubberband"s way less than my Daytona with its 20k mile solid-hub clutch. There are a lot more factors than the style of clutch.
09-11-2017, 11:38 AM
tryingbe

Re: Clutch Recommendations for 203 HP / 255 lb-ft Torque

I forgot, I had some photos.

Resurfaced TU budget flywheel.
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe...s/flywheel.jpg

TU 6 punk ceramic disc
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe...arts/6punk.jpg

TU 4 punk feramic disc RACE ONLY CLUTCH, worn extremely fast, less than 5000 miles and it was worn down to the rivets.
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe...eramic.jpg.jpg

TU black pressure plate
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe...tuplateluk.jpg

Used double diaphragm plate, I think it is from relentless racing
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe.../sachplate.jpg

Used clutch, I think it is from relentless racing
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe...ts/ceramic.jpg

Spec stage 4 clutch
http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe..._134453173.jpg

http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe..._134519062.jpg

http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe..._134536047.jpg