should I convert LM to SMEC ? (87 Shelby Charger)

Hi all , I'm looking fo input and opinions as to if I should convert my charger to a SMEC

- or should I just do the TII wireing conversion and be "done with it"

I've had cars with both engine control systems and I;ll say the smec cars seemed to have fewer issues - seemed lol

I do like the compactness of the smec as well as the external automatic shutdown relay , along with the newer style relays without the metal shells

the charger is complete , mint and untampered with as of now with all it's original log motor components in place and working properly so a simple TII wireing mod wouldn't be a hard thing to do with reasonable expectation of success

I do have a few daytona smec engine compartment harness' as well as an 88 K car turbo harness that still has the 50 way bulkhead connector at the firewall so all I'd need to get a hold of is an L body dash harness with the 50 way connector on it to do a really simple swap

I don't have issues with wireing swaps as I've already done a few and re & reing a dash is no big deal to me

I'm asking for opinions as to which system should be better as I'd really like to scoop up one of Shellgames 2 or 4 play setups while I hopefully can still get one

4 play would seem a better plan just for the increased number of tune options but if the smec system is substancially better I'd probably like to choose to go that way
but not having to rip the car apart has benifits to

and , yeah , the whole tunning deal is a big cliff I'm going to have to jump off with my next build as I've never had cause to use more than a MP LM or SMEC on my past builds

and one last question,
can I reprogram a TI smec to run a TII ?
(I'm wondering if the TI smec would have the connection pin for the intake charge temp sensor - ie , is the progarming the only difference between a TI and TII smec?)

I have the 88 K car turbo 1 smec along with the wireing and a MP TII smec that I'd rather not destroy or alter

A external ASD relay can be added to a car with a Power Module very easily.

I would definitely stick with the 87 TII electronics. I see no need to change it for any reason.

You can use an 87 LM to do a TII cal. It's really not hard to do.

I used 87 TII Turbonator to make 290whp...

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Originally Posted by cordes

I would definitely stick with the 87 TII electronics. I see no need to change it for any reason.

You can use an 87 LM to do a TII cal. It's really not hard to do.

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OK , but I suppose I need one of the 87 shelby z LM's that I've already sold (?)
- then it would need the ais wireing mod as well as the map sensor wireing mod

or , can I just reflash the log motor Lm to TII specs ???

I was wanting to move the map sensor closer to the manifold if not right on the manifold IF there's something compatable that would install directly on the manifold , that would be preferable - I seem to recall seeing a post somewhere with a map sensor right on the end of the plenium (?) but I don't remember if it was threaded right into the intake or just mounted to it now

but the map sensor move to the manifold is something that isn't needed to get the simple conversion compleated

the charger's wireing is still mint and known working perfectly so it would be a good thing to consider useing - the K car harness is something I brought home from the scrapyard 16-20 years ago so it's unproven as to IF it even works at all
(lol I didn't even notice it still had the old style bulkhead connection on it until last year)

added bonus - if I use the charger's existing wireing I have a garbage can full of daytona smec harness' and a bucket full of smec's that I could sell to flush out the build budget a little
+ the K harness that would make a turbo z TII/smec conversion simple


the first step is to compleate the TII conversion and know it runs properly , before it becomes a "hot rod"
- if I don't change the harness I already have everything except the TII LM and the L body turbo plumbing hoses

4 independent cals would be nice
one stone cold stock so I can drop any motor in place of a busted one to keep the car going, one cal for a mild performance "driver" and one for "race" - + one for trying new things

Thanks ,
I think I was sold on the o-e wireing back at the suggestion of converting to the external asd relay

the next challenge is figureing a way to split the injector and fuel pump drive between two totally independent sets of injectors and fuel pumps that would be used with cal selections 1&2 vs 3&4

I have a new intake idea - sitting in front of me I have a two piece bottom with a couple of the little weber side draft manifolds sitting on top of it

the bottom of the weber intakes hits my TU steped manifold so they won't bolt straight to the head as is

but if I cut the back half off the two piece bottom and have the weber flanges welded on (I have to get the manifold welded for my 655 head anyway) then I could add a second set of injectors by useing a pair of 30mm thick Jenvey throttle bodies which have a provision for fuel injectors right in them

there are drawings of the TB's in the pdf below the pic on the linked page
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/products2/tw...body-30mm-long

I'd still need to figure a way to add a cross over tube between the intake runners , "south of" the throttle bodies so I can get "ballance" between the runners as well as a good vacume / boost signal to the computer

the injectors on the TB's would be for the stock / mild performance cals the injectors on what's left of the two piece bottom would be used for the "race" call along with the -10 fuel rail I got from Adam Lengal a couple of years ago

an aggressive cal and the GT30-82 turbo I've intended to use .. probably gonna need a good supply of lots of really good fuel - but I don't want to have to wrench so much to change from a street to race set up and a sepperate independent fuel system would be a major step in doing that if all I have to do is fill a small tank and switch the injector / pump drive from A to B

it's been said that the throttle blades would be a drag or restriction but with a
40-45mm bore on each cylinder I don't think that would be much of a problem

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Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge

OK , but I suppose I need one of the 87 shelby z LM's that I've already sold (?)
- then it would need the ais wireing mod as well as the map sensor wireing mod

or , can I just reflash the log motor Lm to TII specs ???

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As long as the LM does not have a MAP sensor on it. That disqualify any L body LM automatically. Only 87 and turbo LM can be used. Oh, do not use a GLHS computer, it will only make tuning more difficult as the LM is a one off LM.

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4 independent cals would be nice
one stone cold stock so I can drop any motor in place of a busted one to keep the car going, one cal for a mild performance "driver" and one for "race" - + one for trying new things

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You really needs two cals. One for every day fuel and one for race fuel. If you don't use race fuel, one cal would be fine. Just lower the boost level.

"As long as the LM does not have a MAP sensor on it. That disqualify any L body LM automatically. Only 87 and turbo LM can be used. Oh, do not use a GLHS computer, it will only make tuning more difficult as the LM is a one off LM."

why does the map on the LM disqualify the LM ?

87 and turbo ? - do you mean 87 turbo II Lm ?

I presume my 87 shelby charger LM has a map on it as there isn't one in the engine compartment and it still uses the 4 pac solenoid set on the strut tower and looks pretty much the exact same as my tursimo did with the 86 log motor set up in it that I built back in '89-90

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Originally Posted by Dr. Johny Dodge

"As long as the LM does not have a MAP sensor on it. That disqualify any L body LM automatically. Only 87 and turbo LM can be used. Oh, do not use a GLHS computer, it will only make tuning more difficult as the LM is a one off LM."

why does the map on the LM disqualify the LM ?

87 and turbo ? - do you mean 87 turbo II Lm ?

I presume my 87 shelby charger LM has a map on it as there isn't one in the engine compartment and it still uses the 4 pac solenoid set on the strut tower and looks pretty much the exact same as my tursimo did with the 86 log motor set up in it that I built back in '89-90

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the map sensor on the LM indicates that is an 86 style ecu even if its in an 87 car.... like the L bodies have. 87 L body is still running 86 style electronics.

you need any 87 NON-L-BODY turbo LM for the conversion to T2 style stuff as long as you are installing a socket and burning a cal. it doesnt have to be a T2 LM.

the wiring changes are super easy and well documented on here.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ght=conversion

also, www.thedodgegarage.com details out some more of the wiring changes.

ive done many of these wiring conversions, sometimes in a parking lot, sometimes on the bench at home. they are pretty simple.

if you ever wanna sell that 88 harness, im interested.

thanks

Brian

What Aries_Turbo said. Any 87 non-l-body turbo LM.


Good wiring details.

http://www.fwdmopar.50megs.com/T2conv.html

Some of the later 86 LMs have the 87 boards capable of running the TII cals. I would agree that it's not generally worth it to dig through them, but they are out there.

Thanks guys !!
looks like I need another 87 TII lm like all the ones I've already sold (sob)

at least that would give me a good stock TII cal to get the thing running without complications

and here I thought I was done with the early set ups - thus my collection of smecs and smec harness'
lol , yeah I also sold all my extra L body stuff over the last few years as I owned daytonas from '94 until this past summer

If anyone is looking to go through the trouble to convert from a LM to the later units, making the 'full jump' to SBEC status and sequential fuel injection makes the effort that much more justifiable.

Something we may all need to start thinking about. These ECM's are around 30 years old. My SMEC has just gone bad. So if you go through the trouble of rewiring for a 30 year old SMEC, maybe updating to something like a Mega Squirt may be something worth thinking about.

both good thoughts but for me I was looking at working with what I have on hand - severial smec harness' and a tote tub full of smec's

Marc , I saw your post on your failed smec - if I had any way to test mine , I'd offer but my smec converted t-z went to the boneyard last summer
none of the ones I have , have been run in years and years... and years

as for my original post , I think it may be best to just do the TII wireing conversion and grab a TII LM as I definately have a good working harness already in the car

from my first build , when I converted my turismo to log turbo , I found harness swaps can be a crapshoot
first harness I tryed came from a car hit so hard in the front end that I had to cut the cowel and firewall to get the bulkhead connector out of the car
car was hit so hard the strut tower moved and blocked acess to the bulkhead connector
- hadda cut the other side to get the LM wireing out too .. and I ended up with a harness with severial broken wires in it

- that was back when the car was 4-5 years old so there were not many shelby chargers to be found in the pick a part yards - and if it was in the no access areas of the yards it was 2K for a motor and harness

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If anyone is looking to go through the trouble to convert from a LM to the later units, making the 'full jump' to SBEC status and sequential fuel injection makes the effort that much more justifiable.

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I agree...

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as for my original post , I think it may be best to just do the TII wireing conversion and grab a TII LM as I definately have a good working harness already in the car.

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good call... for now...